janetDAYZ Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Annie Lennox has tried, it seems, to start something with Beyoncé. Sure, why not? Last month, she called Bey "feminist lite," and in an interview with NPR's Steve Inskeep yesterday, she clarified, "twerking is not feminism." Lennox addressed the overt sexualization of women in music more broadly, explaining, The reason why I've commented is because I think that this overt sexuality thrust—literally—at particular audiences, when very often performers have a very, very young audience, like 7 years older, I find it disturbing and I think its exploitative. It's troubling. I'm coming from a perspective of a woman that's had children. Which, fine, but Beyoncé isn't exactly a teen idol. Inskeep pushed Lennox, noting, "Some people will know that you specifically criticized Beyoncé for this the other day." Lennox responded, "I was being asked about Beyoncé in the context of feminism, and I was thinking at the time about very impactful feminists that have dedicated their lives to the movement of liberating women and supporting women at the grass roots, and I was saying, 'well that's one end of the spectrum, and then you have the other end of the spectrum.'" Sheesh! She continued, "Listen, twerking is not feminism. Thats what I'm referring to. It's not—it's not liberating, it's not empowering. It's a sexual thing that you're doing on a stage; it doesn't empower you. That's my feeling about it." Beyoncé hasn't responded.http://gawker.com/annie-lennox-to-beyonce-twerking-is-not-feminism-1649264520 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.C Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Yes Annie! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwistedElegance™ Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 I love Annie, and I think it's easy to twist her words on this one. She meant no harm. Twerking isn't feminism, nor is it all Beyonce does. Between this and Emma Watson's thinkpieces it really feels like the blogs are trying too hard to make something happen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Wonder Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Here we have another case of someone who comes off as if they're the authority source for defining "feminism". I do find it hilarious how ppl criticize Beyonce for not being feminist, yet ignoring that she's been empowering women since the early days of Destiny's Child ("No No No", "Survivor", "INDE-FUCKING-PENDENT WOMEN" ffs), and even into her solo career ("Me, Myself & I", "Irreplaceable", "Grown Woman"). But I guess opening a shelter for battered women and using your own money to build a school for women to further their education isn't feminist enough. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reyna ♔ Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 I have a lot of love and respect for Annie. Still, to an extent, I largely disagree with this latest trend of trying to brand what is "feminist" or "not feminist" especially when it comes to sexualized things like some dancing since the criteria seems lax at best. I know the argument from a perspective like Annie's is that it's sexual objectification (since I think "twerking" is moreso her loose example of a sexual style of dance as opposed to specifically twerking), but why can't it be seen as women owning their sexuality which is a branch of feminism? A good argument can be made for that, too, if not stronger. The real measure of a feminist is, and should be, by what one does to promote the equality of the genders. "'Feminist': The person who believes in the social, political, and economic equality of the sexes." Beyoncé prides herself on her multiple anthems for women, has done charity/activist work to benefit women, and herself is an example of a strong woman asserting her place in her field largely by her own leadership. That's enough to easily consider her a true feminist. "Twerking" or otherwise. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock & Roll Hall of Game Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 More proof that women hate each other for no damn reason 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeJoe Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 People stay clockin' Thiefyonce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 I get it on both ends, but I think people need to understand the times, sex has always sold, and these artists do what they do, and once its been done they have to up the stakes to get a return, look at Nicki Minaj and what she did, Im wondering what she could possibly do next ....as for Beyonce, what is empowering about her is she is talented, an excellent performer, and puts in some serious hard work, that teaches girls here is a high bar to reach, if it were simply just "twerking" every chick in the game would be on top, but they not, so that should give some pause as to why Beyonce is even part of the convo, but when you on top haters gone hate, aint nothing we can do about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 I have a lot of love and respect for Annie. Still, to an extent, I largely disagree with this latest trend of trying to brand what is "feminist" or "not feminist" especially when it comes to sexualized things like some dancing since the criteria seems lax at best. I know the argument from a perspective like Annie's is that it's sexual objectification (since I think "twerking" is moreso her loose example of a sexual style of dance as opposed to specifically twerking), but why can't it be seen as women owning their sexuality which is a branch of feminism? A good argument can be made for that, too, if not stronger. The real measure of a feminist is, and should be, by what one does to promote the equality of the genders. "'Feminist': The person who believes in the social, political, and economic equality of the sexes." Beyoncé prides herself on her multiple anthems for women, has done charity/activist work to benefit women, and herself is an example of a strong woman asserting her place in her field largely by her own leadership. That's enough to easily consider her a true feminist. "Twerking" or otherwise. I agree I just wonder why does being feminist come with a double standard? you can't be sexual and own it and still be seen as empowering? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarrylf Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 I think Annie put it PERFECTLY "Feminist LITE", and I think most in general get the words empowering & feminist mixed up. Bey is more empowering than feminist, but if she is a feminist, she's the LIte easy version .....when you ignore the blatant stealing ofcourse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reyna ♔ Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 I agree I just wonder why does being feminist come with a double standard? you can't be sexual and own it and still be seen as empowering? The struggle for womens' rights is one that has taken place for millenia. With roots so deep, a lot of things that have been ingrained into us over time are harder to shake than others.This view of sexuality comes from that. Since we've almost always been treated as sex objects by many men, the answer for some women is to not exhibit your sexuality much at all and to do so is objectification and trying to please men. While on the other hand you have the view which I agree with that a woman's ownership of her body and choice to do with it as she pleases be it wearing whatever clothes she wants, dancing how she wants, etc. is owning her sexuality and femininity. No-one has the right to objectify her based on that and just because she dresses this or that way doesn't mean she's objectifying herself and doing it for men. It's just as easily done for herself. So what if men happen to be pleased by what they see? It doesn't men that that is all there is to her and no-one should have to be made to conform to a certain look or behavior like that in order to be respected. No harm is being done to anyone. People need to mature, and we as women need to work a little harder than we are to break these ideas in ourselves and in others. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOtherFan Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 No lies told. The ideal that Beyonce is anything close to being a feminist is absolutely ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bu. Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Some of you probably don't even care about feminism...it's just a way for you to get you kii's against Beyonce 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeJoe Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Some of you probably don't even care about feminism...it's just a way for you to get you kii's against Beyonce you're right. I'm a guy and could care less about female stuff and you're right about me getting my kii's off Bey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bu. Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 you're right. I'm a guy and could care less about female stuff and you're right about me getting my kii's off Bey But Bey has the last kii to be honest, as always. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bu. Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 I have a lot of love and respect for Annie. Still, to an extent, I largely disagree with this latest trend of trying to brand what is "feminist" or "not feminist" especially when it comes to sexualized things like some dancing since the criteria seems lax at best. I know the argument from a perspective like Annie's is that it's sexual objectification (since I think "twerking" is moreso her loose example of a sexual style of dance as opposed to specifically twerking), but why can't it be seen as women owning their sexuality which is a branch of feminism? A good argument can be made for that, too, if not stronger. The real measure of a feminist is, and should be, by what one does to promote the equality of the genders. "'Feminist': The person who believes in the social, political, and economic equality of the sexes." Beyoncé prides herself on her multiple anthems for women, has done charity/activist work to benefit women, and herself is an example of a strong woman asserting her place in her field largely by her own leadership. That's enough to easily consider her a true feminist. "Twerking" or otherwise. Preach it! I'm confused as to why Annie would say it. To me - it's not very feminist to limit what feminism is and belittling someone's expression as is what Annie is kind of doing. Telling other girls what to do defeats the whole point of feminism, doesn't it? And I disagree with her saying empowering is not feminist. Surely a woman SHOULD feel empowered in order to do the things she can do to be 'considered' a feminist? In addition - when did anyone say twerking is feminist? It's a dance...and a part of some cultures...it's not just girls that do it LOL. And it's not as if Beyonce just twerks either although I don't think she was singling Beyonce out (bearing in mind that Annie recently defended Beyonce after a similar article appeared last week). I think it's simple case of shitty journalism and they've missed out parts of what Annie said to give it a different context...because she's usually better than this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeJoe Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 But Bey has the last kii to be honest, as always. IDC but are you talking about before or after these bangs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock & Roll Hall of Game Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Some of you probably don't even care about feminism...it's just a way for you to get you kii's against Beyonce That's me!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bu. Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 IDC but are you talking about before or after these bangs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeJoe Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bu. Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 I'm not gonna lie...the bangs were a mess at first even though I grew to like them. But it's irrelevant to the topic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOtherFan Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Some of you probably don't even care about feminism...it's just a way for you to get you kii's against Beyonce I am getting my kii's, but it's a the thought of Beyonce anything close to a feminist. lol I respect her hustle, and how she's trying to position her brand, but it's silly... to say the least. lol It's just few people are willing to say it (especially in the media), because of how big she currently is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bu. Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 I am getting my kii's, but it's a the thought of Beyonce anything close to a feminist. lol I respect her hustle, and how she's trying to position her brand, but it's silly... to say the least. lol It's just few people are willing to say it (especially in the media), because of how big she is, but it's absolutely ridiculous. lol You would never see her as one though. Tbh this response says everything I need to say about Beyonce, Feminism and those that talk about whether she is one or not: firstly, I love that Beyoncé remains a talking point in feminist discussion. She legitimately has the world at large talking about it. More so than any of ya'lls faves what else can be really said at this point? EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. of you will continue to see things the way you already do. If you don't think she's a feminist: great, okay, move on. Meanwhile Beyoncé in all of her unfeminist glory will continue to spark discussion, facilitate conversation, EDUCATE PEOPLE with college courses specifically about her feminism, and Annie Lennox might end up selling another couple copies of the CD she's hawking. Circle of life, I guess! Beyoncé stays twerking ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Like I said...Beyonce stays winning whilst Annie is being elitist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reyna ♔ Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Preach it! I'm confused as to why Annie would say it. To me - it's not very feminist to limit what feminism is and belittling someone's expression as is what Annie is kind of doing. Telling other girls what to do defeats the whole point of feminism, doesn't it? And I disagree with her saying empowering is not feminist. Surely a woman SHOULD feel empowered in order to do the things she can do to be 'considered' a feminist? In addition - when did anyone say twerking is feminist? It's a dance...and a part of some cultures...it's not just girls that do it LOL. And it's not as if Beyonce just twerks either although I don't think she was singling Beyonce out (bearing in mind that Annie recently defended Beyonce after a similar article appeared last week). I think it's simple case of shitty journalism and they've missed out parts of what Annie said to give it a different context...because she's usually better than this. It's pretty much what I explained to Bailey's reply. It isn't very feminist to do so, but this is such a complex movement that's been going on for so sooo long that changes to it get scary to every older generation. I mean the sexuality branch wasn't really embraced until the 70s. It's still fairly new so really it's just a matter of time. I think she was saying that type of dancing isn't empowering to a feminist which is still wrong just a different statement. That's what makes me agree with you and Matt that it's likely the journalism creating this controversy and not Annie herself. Her statement seems off and somewhat butchered. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reyna ♔ Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Some of you probably don't even care about feminism...it's just a way for you to get you kii's against Beyonce Basically. A lot of the ones agreeing don't know or understand much of anything about feminism apparently since they're so gung-ho for what's been said here. It'll be reach after reach and kii's at nothing since likely Annie's statement was picked apart by the journalist anyway. If Beyoncé being considered a feminist is wrong or ridiculous then say why. Make an argument and defend it. No, the kii's and "shade" is all they care for so whatever. It's what I expected anyway. I'll keep rockin' my avvy until someone makes a good case otherwise. Not holding my breath, though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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