Annie Lennox to Beyoncé: "Twerking Is Not Feminism"

[janetDAYZ]

So I dug up the other interview that Annie gave about Beyonce (which was about 2 weeks prior to this one). When she referred to Beyonce as "feminist LITE" ..she's a lil more detailed in her thoughts about Beyonce and others. Here's the other interview...

During an interview with PrideSouce magazine, Grammy winner Annie Lennox responded to Beyoncé’s claims of Feminism, calling her a “lite feminist.”

“I would call that ‘feminist lite.’ L-I-T-E. I’m sorry,” Lennox said. “It’s tokenistic to me. I mean, I think she’s a phenomenal artist — I just love her performances — but I’d like to sit down [with her]. I think I’d like to sit down with quite a few artists and talk to them. I’d like to listen to them; I’d like to hear what they truly think.”

Lennox continued.

“I see a lot of it as them taking the word hostage and using it to promote themselves, but I don’t think they necessarily represent wholeheartedly the depths of feminism — no, I don’t. I think for many it’s very convenient and it looks great and it looks radical, but I have some issues with it. I have issues with it. Of course I do. I think it’s a cheap shot.”

Lennox later went on to criticize Beyoncé and other artists for their sexually charged lyrics.

“I think what they do with it is cheap and … yeah. What can I tell you? Sex always sells. And there’s nothing wrong with sex selling, but it depends on your audience. If they’re 7-year-old kids, I have issues with it.”

Clutch Magazine writer, Diana Veiga, slammed Lennox for policing black women’s embodiment of feminism.

“This need for white women to police Black women’s definition and brand of feminism is troublesome, bothersome, and disturbing,” she wrote. “It does nothing more than widen the chasm that already exists between white and Black feminists. What exactly are the depths of feminism Lennox is talking about? How does Beyoncé not represent them? And what does Lennox think Beyoncé is missing?”

http://thegrio.com/2014/10/07/annie-lennox-beyonce-feminist/

[jarrylf]

Eh Im getting my Kii's and I know about feminism (my aunt was a bra burning 70's feminist activist, so I better know). The problem I have with Bey titling herself (as she so often does) feminist is the same problem I have with Kanye West calling himself a civil rights activist, it makes the people who don't know what the real definitions are for both titles confused and cheapens the word.

 

The reason I don't consider Bey a full fledged feminist or deserving of that title is because Feminist go against the norm, go against the establishment,, against anything and everything to fight for the rights of their gender. And Bey goes the norm, she goes with the establishment, she does empower, but she doesn't fight for anything, she doesnt come out against anything. She's just not a feminist, and I don't see why that's a problem,she can be for feminisim, support it, but until she makes some actual changes to the image we see (Example: Taking stans on equal pay,anti abuse, anti something PUBLICALLY) she won't be a feminist in my eyes. Hell Janet stood up for and came out against more than Bey & I don't consider her a feminist, she's Feminist LITE but closer to the real thing than Bey, & others who attach the title when they really mean empowering.

[Reyna ♔]

Eh Im getting my Kii's and I know about feminism (my aunt was a bra burning 70's feminist activist, so I better know). The problem I have with Bey titling herself (as she so often does) feminist is the same problem I have with Kanye West calling himself a civil rights activist, it makes the people who don't know what the real definitions are for both titles and cheapens the word.

 

The reason I don't consider Bey a full fledged feminist or deserving of that title is because Feminist go against the norm, go against the establishment,, against anything and everything to fight for the rights of their gender. And Bey goes the norm, she goes with the establishment, she does empower, but she doesn't fight for anything, she doesnt come out against anything. She's just not a feminist, and I don't see why that's a problem,she can be for feminisim, support it, but until she makes some actual changes to the image we see (Example: Taking stans on equal pay,anti abuse, anti something PUBLICALLY) she won't be a feminist in my eyes. Hell Janet stood up for and came out against more than Bey & I don't consider her a feminist, she's Feminist LITE but closer to the real thing than Bey, & others who attach the title when they really mean empowering.

 

This type of qualifying feminism or activism at all is a problem. You don't have to be entirely radical to be a feminist or any type of activist. Standing up for gender equality makes you a feminist. That's it. Supporting feminism/gender equality by definition makes you a feminist. Empowering other feminists and the values of feminism by definition makes you a feminist. There is nothing about her image that makes her not a feminist. She uses her craft to promote women, she's contributed to the cause through donations and even headlined benefit concerts, and since this is the topic here, she also owns her sexuality and controls her own brand. How is that not feminism and proof of a woman supporting feminist values? You and others wishing she'd do more doesn't make her not a feminist. This feminist-lite, feminist-heavy, feminist-knee-deep, whatever the hell. It's all bullshit. Would it be great for her to take an even more active role? Sure. But to make her or any others less or not qualified because they aren't "in it" enough is what's ridiculous. 

[ThatOtherFan]

You would never see her as one though. Tbh this response says everything I need to say about Beyonce, Feminism and those that talk about whether she is one or not:

 

 

Like I said...Beyonce stays winning whilst Annie is being elitist. 

That's just a stan trying to downplay Annie Lennox because they think someone came for their fav. lol 

 

And any real discussion on Beyonce's attempts at branding herself as feminist (outside of stans), have been that of skepticism by actual feminists. lol 

 

So, if that's your response to Annie's comments and Beyonce's supposed feminism, you aren't saying much.... and it's no shade. lol 

[bu.]

Anni also said this

 

Lennox now admits she was actually unaware of the performance, and was simply explaining where she felt Beyonce stood in the “spectrum of feminism.”

“The context was that I didn’t realize that Beyonce performed at a MTV Awards show with a huge sign with the word ‘feminist’ behind her,” Lennox said Friday on “The View.” “I had no idea about that.’

 

“So unbeknown to me, I was asked the question, ‘What do you think of Beyonce in terms of feminism?’ My response was, ‘I think Beyonce is feminist lite,’ and I said that thinking that for me, there’s a spectrum of feminism… and when I was saying this I was thinking about (The Vagina Monologues writer) Eve Ensler and I was thinking, ‘There’s a heavyweight feminist, there’s a woman who works at the grassroots of feminism.’

 

“And I really will take the opportunity again to say very, very clearly that I adore Beyonce. I think she is extraordinary, powerful, the most extraordinary performer. She’s so gifted and beautiful… and if she uses the term feminism, that’s fantastic. I truly welcome it…”

Read more at http://www.eurweb.com/2014/10/annie-lennox-clarifies-her-beyonce-is-feminist-lite-comment/#TQscIQPCIfwK8wtg.99

[JoeJoe]

That's just a stan trying to downplay Annie Lennox because they think someone came for their fav. lol 

 

And any real discussion on Beyonce's attempts at branding herself as feminist (outside of stans), have been that of skepticism by actual feminists. lol 

 

So, if that's your response to Annie's comments and Beyonce's supposed feminism, you aren't saying much.... and it's no shade. lol 

Real feminists see it I guess. I doubt Beyonce's the only supposed feminist Annie ever came for anyway

[jarrylf]

This type of qualifying feminism or activism at all is a problem. You don't have to be entirely radical to be a feminist or any type of activist. Standing up for gender equality makes you a feminist. That's it. Supporting feminism/gender equality by definition makes you a feminist. Empowering other feminists and the values of feminism by definition makes you a feminist. There is nothing about her image that makes her not a feminist. She uses her craft to promote women, she's contributed to the cause through donations and even headlined benefit concerts, and since this is the topic here, she also owns her sexuality and controls her own brand. How is that not feminism and proof of a woman supporting feminist values? You and others wishing she'd do more doesn't make her not a feminist. This feminist-lite, feminist-heavy, feminist-knee-deep, whatever the hell. It's all bullshit. Would it be great for her to take an even more active role? Sure. But to make her or any others less or not qualified because they aren't "in it" enough is what's ridiculous. 

We're going to have to agree to disagree, because I just  don't see it that easy, and I know alot of people (this generation) do, I think that's more supporting the activist and people in the trenches than being 1 yourself (which again, that's no problem to me either unless you're giving yourself the title that you are that activist, it's like saying someone who supports our troops is a troop to me honestly). I think she does very decent with supporting women, but not enough or the full on title feminist, no more than Kanye West deserves the title Civil Right's Activist (among other ridiculous titles), I mean seriously, all she could do is protest for equal pay, and there we go. 

[bu.]

That's just a stan trying to downplay Annie Lennox because they think someone came for their fav. lol 

 

And any real discussion on Beyonce's attempts at branding herself as feminist (outside of stans), have been that of skepticism by actual feminists. lol 

 

So, if that's your response to Annie's comments and Beyonce's supposed feminism, you aren't saying much.... and it's no shade. lol 

 

Downplay? Not really. She was right - Beyonce is the reason feminism is being discussed. Whether she is a feminist or not - that doesn't bother me. But ever since Dec 13 of last year feminism has all of a sudden become a very popular topic and there's only one reason why. Beyonce comes out on top, yet again. 

 

And that's exactly what Reyna has been saying - a woman (or person rather as you don't have to be female to be a feminist) telling another woman that what they do isn't feminism or is "lite" or whatever...is not very feminist. Shaming female-sexuality is not very feminist. Branding someone feminism as illegitimate is not very feminist. It's counter-productive to the 'cause' and wrong. It's as if they want Beyonce to start doing TED talks, write essays or start doing a world tour with Malala to be considered a feminist when what she is doing is a great form of it. Instead of criticising her form of feminism they should embrace her and work WITH her because in todays world and climate she has a power that they don't - the ability to reach out to the masses because let's face it...that is something they struggle to do unless they mention Beyonce

 

You're not saying much either . If you don't think she is a feminist..then great. Don't. You don't have to. 

[Reyna ♔]

We're going to have to agree to disagree, because I just  don't see it that easy, and I know alot of people (this generation) do, I think that's more supporting the activist and people in the trenches than being 1 yourself (which again, that's no problem to me either unless you're giving yourself the title that you are that activist, it's like saying someone who supports our troops is a troop to me honestly). I think she does very decent with supporting women, but not enough or the full on title feminist, no more than Kanye West deserves the title Civil Right's Activist (among other ridiculous titles), I mean seriously, all she could do is protest for equal pay, and there we go. 

 

The qualifications for a soldier and the qualifications for a feminist/activist are very different. So no, saying they're synonymous is fundamentally wrong. There's no opinion on that. It's fact for fact.

 

Here:

 

Which of these definitions don't apply to Bey? 

 

Beyoncé may not be "on the ground marching", but once again, by definition, her using her platform to campaign for feminism makes her an activist and her support and embracing of feminism and its values makes her a feminist. Once again, if you want her to do more, fine. Say that and we can argue that. You don't, however, get to change the grounds on which these titles are given just to suit you. 

[jarrylf]

Really I say more Bey's contributing to it being discussed, I've done &/or seen this argument over Taylor & Miley & Rihanna, Bey's only the latest 1, my stance has just strongly been & remains that people get empowerment & feminism mixed up. Bottomline at the end of it all, it's something I don't see everybody agreeing 100% with each other with the way it is today. In my eyes there is NO full fledged feminist mainstream singer of this generation, who EARNS that title through the traditional way.

[Reyna ♔]

Really I say more Bey's contributing to it being discussed, I've done &/or seen this argument over Taylor & Miley & Rihanna, Bey's only the latest 1, my stance has just strongly been & remains that people get empowerment & feminism mixed up. Bottomline at the end of it all, it's something I don't see everybody agreeing 100% with each other with the way it is today. In my eyes there is NO full fledged feminist mainstream singer of this generation, who EARNS that title through the traditional way.

 

Again, I refer you to the definitions. Can you honestly say that they don't apply to her? You wanting her to do more for the cause and her not being a "true" feminist are two completely different statements.

[Mr. Wonder]

Some of you probably don't even care about feminism...it's just a way for you to get you kii's against Beyonce

 

Basically.

 

you're right. I'm a guy and could care less about female stuff and you're right about me getting my kii's off Bey

 

Chauvinist.

[Mr. Wonder]

And it's clear from the discussion that some of you are only seeing the political side of feminism. 

[jarrylf]

The qualifications for a soldier and the qualifications for a feminist/activist are very different. So no, saying they're synonymous is fundamentally wrong. There's no opinion on that. It's fact for fact.

 

Here:

 

Which of these definitions don't apply to Bey? 

 

Beyoncé may not be "on the ground marching", but once again, by definition, her using her platform to campaign for feminism makes her an activist and her support and embracing of feminism and its values makes her a feminist. Once again, if you want her to do more, fine. Say that and we can argue that. You don't, however, get to change the grounds on which these titles are given just to suit you. 

Both don't describe her lol, she's not "especially active" about anything but her career and her copying, that opening  alone clocks her out of any activism, Same for "vigorous advocate of a cause" (If the cause aint her she aint vigorous bout jack shit lol) she's no activist. And in terms of the feminist definition, I don't see Bey being ALL of those, just the advocate of social, and that's it. That's Feminist Lite, a real 1 embodies all. She's no full feminist, but hey, you pointed out she's closer to being a Feminist than she is a activist of any kind

 

She doesn't even have to be on the ground marching, she just has to come out publically against something (lots of things preferably to earn that title from me). And sure you can change wording as it bets suits someone (like Bey did with feminist)look at what black culture did for the N-Word, look at how people use "Sick" as a description for something good, I have my definition of feminist and I'm sorry but you & nobody else is changing it, not yet anyway, I mean hey life's about evolving but I doubt I'll see that defninition fit for any female pop superstar of today unless things take a drastic change.

[ThatOtherFan]

Downplay? Not really. She was right - Beyonce is the reason feminism is being discussed. Whether she is a feminist or not - that doesn't bother me. But ever since Dec 13 of last year feminism has all of a sudden become a very popular topic and there's only one reason why. Beyonce comes out on top, yet again. 

 

And that's exactly what Reyna has been saying - a woman (or person rather as you don't have to be female to be a feminist) telling another woman that what they do isn't feminism or is "lite" or whatever...is not very feminist. Shaming female-sexuality is not very feminist. Branding someone feminism as illegitimate is not very feminist. It's counter-productive to the 'cause' and wrong. It's as if they want Beyonce to start doing TED talks, write essays or start doing a world tour with Malala to be considered a feminist when what she is doing is a great form of it. Instead of criticising her form of feminism they should embrace her and work WITH her because in todays world and climate she has a power that they don't - the ability to reach out to the masses because let's face it...that is something they struggle to do unless they mention Beyonce

 

You're not saying much either . If you don't think she is a feminist..then great. Don't. You don't have to. 

 

Read that back to yourself.

 

And a person, particularly a feminist, has every right to criticize Beyonce attempts to brand/market herself as such, that's not anti-feminist. lol There have been plenty that have criticized Beyonce. Some have even called her image anti-feminist (a black feminist at that). 

[Reyna ♔]

Both don't describe her lol, she's not "especially active" about anything but her career and her copying, that openeing  alone clocks her out of any activism, Same for "vigorous advocate of a cause" (nothing but her) she's no activist. And in terms of the feminist definition, I don't see Bey being ALL of those, just the advocate of social, and that's it. That's Feminist Lite, a real 1 embodies all. She's no feminist

 

She doesn't even have to be on the ground marching, she just has to come out publically against something (lots of things preferably to earn that title from me). And sure you can change wording as it bets suits someone (like Bey did with feminist)look at what black culture did for the N-Word, look at how people use "Sick" as a description for something good, I have my definition of feminist and I'm sorry but you & nobody else is changing it, not yet anyway, I mean hey life's about evolving but I doubt I'll see that defninition fit for any female pop superstar of today unless things take a drastic change.

 

Where are you getting that from? Her coming out and supporting the cause both behind closed doors and on stage isn't especially active? Again, that's using her platform to campaign for the cause. You can doubt her genuineness if you'd like, but you can't deny the facts of the argument made in her favor. Also, where don't you get the political/legal aspects? That's where the campaigning comes in. The voting, which is hard to know since that's mostly private, but can easily be assumed. Social is obvious. How does her track record with her career not reflect her economic advocating? 

 

She came out public as a feminist which makes her against things like objectification of women, less pay for equal work, etc that go against feminism. Where are you going with this? What people "attempted" to do with the n-word that worked was change it's social use. Not it's definition. The definition remains the same. Everyone doesn't have their individual definitions for words and simply base everything off that. That's not how language works. By definition, Beyonce is a feminist. 

[jarrylf]

Where are you getting that from? Her coming out and supporting the cause both behind closed doors and on stage isn't especially active? Again, that's using her platform to campaign for the cause. You can doubt her genuineness if you'd like, but you can't deny the facts of the argument made in her favor. Also, where don't you get the political/legal aspects? That's where the campaigning comes in. The voting, which is hard to know since that's mostly private, but can easily be assumed. Social is obvious. How does her track record with her career not reflect her economic advocating? 

 

She came out public as a feminist which makes her against things like objectification of women, less pay for equal work, etc that go against feminism. Where are you going with this? What people "attempted" to do with the n-word that worked was change it's social use. Not it's definition. The definition remains the same. Everyone doesn't have their individual definitions for words and simply base everything off that. That's not how language works. By definition, Beyonce is a feminist. 

I'm getting that from her career and persona...and No I don't see those as being especially active at all. Escpecially active means going above and beyond your norm. And point blank and period she has NOT done THAT at all for ANY cause. You know what, I will give her political activism because of her work with The Obama's, she get's 1 point there (Activist LITE). BUT I will NOT give her career the reflect of economic advocating at all because if that's all she has in that 1 that's the same as saying every single pop culture celeb career is the same, and I don't see it.

 

But giving herself the title is not enough at all, she hasn't earned the title, she hasn't worked for the title, thus I don't respect it or agree with it for her or any pop star that's not publically taking a stand against the issues women face. Giving yourself the title of something doesn't instantly make you it... By definition Beyonce is feminist LITE because of the examples in the definition she only meets 1  

[Reyna ♔]

Read that back to yourself.

 

And a person, particularly and a feminist has every right to criticize Beyonce attempts to brand/market herself as such, that's not anti-feminist. lol There have been plenty that have criticized Beyonce. Some have even called her image anti-feminist (a black feminist at that). 

 

He's making a good point. She isn't the only reason feminism is being discussed, but she is giving it a lot of traffic just on her name alone.

 

People can criticize whatever they want, of course. That's a human right. This isn't about whether or not someone can criticize someone else. It's about making sure your criticisms are accurate. People telling her what she's doing isn't feminism is inaccurate because she both exemplifies and supports feminism. Shaming female sexuality IS anti-feminist.  A woman being in control of what she does with her own body and how she uses it is owning your sexuality and owning your sexuality is a part of feminism. By definition, she's a feminist. Maybe not the way certain people want her to be, but she is. People can criticize her way of portraying herself as one as much as they wish. She still fits the criteria for one and can market herself as such regardless of people's discontent. 

[Reyna ♔]

I'm getting that from her career and persona...and No I don't see those as being especially active at all. Escpecially active means going above and beyond your norm. And point blank and period she has NOT done THAT at all for ANY cause. You know what, I will give her political activism because of her work with The Obama's, she get's 1 point there (Activist LITE). BUT I will NOT give her career the reflect of economic advocating at all because if that's all she has in that 1 that's the same as saying every single pop culture celeb career is the same, and I don't see it.

 

But giving herself the title is not enough at all, she hasn't earned the title, she hasn't worked for the title, thus I don't respect it or agree with it for her or any pop star that's not publically taking a stand against the issues women face. Giving yourself the title of something doesn't instantly make you it... By definition Beyonce is feminist LITE because of the examples in the definition she only meets 1  

 

Active means being currently involved. Especially active means being obviously involved. Your "going above and beyond your norm" is your own attempt at a definition, and once again, language doesn't work that way. These lite qualifications are bullshit and misinformed. You either are a feminist or you're not. You are an activist or you're not. There is no "lite" to be recognized except in the minds of people who think that their idea or example is superior to another. She meets the criteria. She's a feminist. Period. How is that the same thing? She controls her own career and her brand. Not every celeb can say that. Her money is her own to do as she pleases. Not every celeb can say that. 

 

She supports and is an example of a person for the political, social, economic and legal equality of the sexes. SHE IS A FEMINIST. She's earned that title as well as millions of women. This isn't the army where earning certain achievements for doing this and and that gives you a specific rank. There's no such thing as a "lite" or "heavy" feminist. You are or you are not. "Feminist" is a broad term and accessible to anyone who holds the values of feminism. She does and has said so. You wanting her to be more active doesn't disqualify her or anyone else. This should not be so hard to accept. 

[jarrylf]

Active means being currently involved. Especially active means being obviously involved. Your "going above and beyond your norm" is your own attempt at a definition, and once again, language doesn't work that way. These lite qualifications are bullshit and misinformed. You either are a feminist or you're not. You are an activist or you're not. There is no "lite" to be recognized except in the minds of people who think that their idea or example is superior to another. She meets the criteria. She's a feminist. Period. How is that the same thing? She controls her own career and her brand. Not every celeb can say that. Her money is her own to do as she pleases. Not every celeb can say that. 

 

She supports and is an example of a person for the political, social, economic and legal equality of the sexes. SHE IS A FEMINIST. She's earned that title as well as millions of women. This isn't the army where earning certain achievements for doing this and and that gives you a specific rank. There's no such thing as a "lite" or "heavy" feminist. You are or you are not. "Feminist" is a broad term and accessible to anyone who holds the values of feminism. She does and has said so. You wanting her to be more active doesn't disqualify her or anyone else. This should not be so hard to accept. 

Sorry but she's not what anyone would describe as "Especially Active" when it comes to feminism or activism, that's no singers at all, seriously, she's not "Especially Active" about anything but her career. And demeaning "Especially Active" to mean "obviously active" isn't working either. And I disagree, like Annie said there's degrees and spectrum, I don't think we should dumb down and simplify it to mean even calling yourself the name automatically makes you the same type of feminist that put their lives careers and reputations on the live for the rights of women, I'm sorry, that's just a insult to everything full fledged feminists fight for. But everything you listed that she's in control of makes her no damn feminist, nor does it make every single female artist who that can be said about.

 

Nope, she only has a few of those (the easy ones), she is Feminist LITE, she earned THAT title, she won't be a full fledged feminist until she puts her back and career on the line for women everywhere. Her calling hersef something doesn't make her it.

 

If you honestly think by meeting 1 (and a stretch of 2) example in the term of what a feminist is makes you a full fledged feminist, you're agreeing that Britney, Katy, Rihanna, Miley, Katy, and every single woman in pop culture who has even 1 female empowerment song is. And that's fine for those of you who do, I just think it cheapens the term and won't ever see it that way just because I know better is all. If they or any singer want the right to be called a feminist, it has to be earned through more than what they do, actual work and taking a actual stand against something

[Reyna ♔]

Sorry but she's not what anyone would describe as "Especially Active" when it comes to feminism or activism, that's no singers at all, seriously, she's not "Especially Active" about anything but her career. And demeaning "Especially Active" to mean "obviously active" isn't working either. And I disagree, like Annie said there's degrees and spectrum, I don't think we should dumb down and simplify it to mean even calling yourself the name automatically makes you the same type of feminist that put their lives careers and reputations on the live for the rights of women, I'm sorry, that's just a insult to everything full fledged feminists fight for. But everything you listed that she's in control of makes her no damn feminist, nor does it make every single female artist who that can be said about.

 

Nope, she only has a few of those (the easy ones), she is Feminist LITE, she earned THAT title, she won't be a full fledged feminist until she puts her back and career on the line for women everywhere. Her calling hersef something doesn't make her it.

 

If you honestly think by meeting 1 (and a stretch of 2) example in the term of what a feminist is makes you a full fledged feminist, you're agreeing that Britney, Katy, Rihanna, Miley, Katy, and every single woman in pop culture who has even 1 female empowerment song is. And that's fine for those of you who do, I just think it cheapens the term and won't ever see it that way just because I know better is all. If they or any singer want the right to be called a feminist, it has to be earned through more than what they do, actual work and taking a actual stand against something

 

There aren't degrees and the spectrum is imagined. I'd read Roxane Gay's "Bad Feminist" for a much more reasonable take on feminism. Trying to setup a spectrum like that is, as I said, trying to paint the picture as if someone's way of expressing feminism is superior to another's way. We're all putting our heart into the same cause, and no-one should be portrayed as less of a feminist if we're all aiming for the same thing. You and others wanting to implying a ranking system really need to reconsider what the goal is here. Gaining equality or splitting us up arbitrarily for brownie points. It's not an insult to anyone who truly cares about why feminism took off as a movement in the first place. People who thought that the idea of women being inferior to men was not only a dangerous concept, but one with no basis whatsoever. No-one who cares about equality gives a flying fuck about a spectrum.  Would they want someone to be as active as possible? Yes. But they won't put people on a pedestal for behaving one way or demote others for not doing it that same way. Whether I take out a deer with a .32 pistol or an assault rifle, I still get the kill. Maybe the latter gets it faster, but either way, it's gonna be dinner. #SouthernLogic 

 

She has all four whether you recognize it or not. Whether you wish she was doing even more or not. Legal ties into political and that's established, social is obvious, and this: http://shriverreport.org/gender-equality-is-a-myth-beyonce/ supports her economic stance. You were saying? She doesn't have to put her career on the backburner for anyone and her using her career to advance the agenda is actually HELPING the movement. That's the advantage of a platform. More people are listening to you.

 

She meets all 4 of them, and I'm just fine accepting anyone willing to donate whatever they can to advance the movement. I'm not sure about all the rest so I can't comment on them yet. But raising your voice for awareness, donating money, voting for the policies, headlining events, writing articles, contributing your image to campaigns, marching, protesting, whatever you can do should be enough. Everyone can do something and no-one should be made to feel inferior for not doing every single thing imaginable to show your support. 

[JoeJoe]

Damn! and I thought I wrote paragraphs

[jarrylf]

Rey, we aren't going to agree on this, Beyonce is not the definition of a feminist (the bare minimum) in my eyes and in alot of people like Annie's eyes, this can go tit for tat all night but really this isn't going anywhere. My meaning comes from growing up with 1 and hearing about all of the hard work that they did, this isn't simply me dumping on Bey, this is me not willing to let the word become meaningless and nothing. And I don't think you're going to change it, it's a good debate but it's not persuading me to change my opinion of what a full or real feminist is. Her note was cute, but not enough to earn the title. She doesn't have to put her career down she can use it to do EVEN MORE is my point, she is in the position that if she staged a boycot over something to do with womens rights it'd get attention, and she'd have the title to me. But what she does is Feminist LITE. A full feminist Beyonce is not and probably won't ever be, and that's OK, it's not a title everyone can live up to.

[Reyna ♔]

Rey, we aren't going to agree on this, Beyonce is not the definition of a feminist (the bare minimum) in my eyes and in alot of people like Annie's eyes, this can go tit for tat all night but really this isn't going anywhere. My meaning comes from growing up with 1 and hearing about all of the hard work that they did, this isn't simply me dumping on Bey, this is me not willing to let the word become meaningless and nothing. And I don't think you're going to change it, it's a good debate but it's not persuading me to change my opinion of what a full or real feminist is. And a full feminist Beyonce is not and probably won't ever be, and that's OK, it's not a title everyone can live up to.

 

She does meet the qualifications within the definition, so yes, in a way she is. What you're attempting to disagree on is the facts and the facts are established independent of you and I. If you said from the start that you don't care for her expression of feminism then fine. If you only said you'd prefer she'd do more then fine. This would have stopped way before this point. However, neither you nor anyone else gets to disqualify or limit her or any other feminist's qualifications based arbitrary rules. Annie seemed to change her tone in the article Bu posted, but even if she didn't, it doesn't make the point any less ridiculous. She's a feminist like any other woman who meets the definition criteria. Period. 

[jarrylf]

She does meet the qualifications within the definition, so yes, in a way she is. What you're attempting to disagree on is the facts and the facts are established independent of you and I. If you said from the start that you don't care for her expression of feminism then fine. If you only said you'd prefer she'd do more then fine. This would have stopped way before this point. However, neither you nor anyone else gets to disqualify or limit her or any other feminist's qualifications based arbitrary rules. Annie seemed to change her tone in the article Bu posted, but even if she didn't, it doesn't make the point any less ridiculous. She's a feminist like any other woman who meets the definition criteria. Period. 

She meets enough to be called "LITE", not a real 1. The facts support exactly what I said the whole thread, she's only a piece of a feminist, not the full definition. Her point remained the same she just went about it softer, but still maintained that she's Feminist LITE, which is the criteria she meets for the term you posted, she doesn't meet all 4. Period.