Rock & Roll Hall of Game Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 11 minutes ago, jarrylf said: I'm waiting until I have 4 hours of comedy to spare today, but you don't need to when that's literally EVERY positive & negative response AND the directors proud goal of the doc, to be 1 sided. And no, like many reviewers say, by definition, documentaries of this nature especially are supposed to present opposing sides so I think it's you who's confused dear It doesn't make what Corey's saying factual, but his word carries more weight than theirs and he's more credible than both of them on this subject. I mean does Dahlmer's neighbor have a history of destroying other cannibals in their life? Which reviewers? Link Please watch. Then explain how a grown man on tour has a kid companion sleeping in his hotel room/bed (James) Corey isn’t relevant. It’s another misdirection “look this child Star wasn’t touched!! So James & Wade are lying” #fallacy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock & Roll Hall of Game Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 Queen Oprah btw for being brave and asking the right questions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarrylf Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 5 minutes ago, Game For Now said: Which reviewers? Link Please watch. Then explain how a grown man on tour has a kid companion sleeping in his hotel room/bed (James) Corey isn’t relevant. It’s another misdirection “look this child Star wasn’t touched!! So James & Wade are lying” #fallacy ..................so basically what you're implying by not knowing that nearly every review trashed this being a "doc", yet accused others of not reading them? Again WHAT ARE DOING BEING SO BLATANTLY WRONG, why would you set yourself up like this?!?! Even the reviews that praise the "doc" take aim at that, again what are you doing? At times “Leaving Neverland” feels more like a deposition than a documentary, given we’re hearing from only one side, again and again.https://chicago.suntimes.com/entertainment/in-hbo-documentary-michael-jackson-is-possibly-a-molester-definitely-a-weirdo/The larger issue with Leaving Neverland, though, is that for something that calls itself a “documentary,” it is woefully one-sided — and in some cases, conveniently selective about the information it chooses to include about its two subjects. https://ew.com/tv-reviews/2019/02/21/leaving-neverland-review/ Leaving Neverland is not a movie that allows for two sides to this story. https://slate.com/culture/2019/01/leaving-neverland-review-michael-jackson-documentary-sundance-abuse.html Not a particularly imaginative documentary, in that it sticks to a straightforward narrative, and, in its empathetic approach, doesn't bother trying to include views from "the other side."-Boston Globe But Leaving Neverland's greatest advantage — its focus on the two men's personal testimony — is also its biggest weakness, as no one outside their families is interviewed by the filmmakers to provide a wider context. Most of the rebuttals to accounts of abuse in the movie come from news clips of Jackson and his lawyers addressing different allegations from different accusers. However, there are other sources who could have corroborated the men's stories, including former employees of Jackson questioned during the pop star's 2005 molestation trial (Jackson was acquitted on all charges). It's a stark contrast to another recent, attention-getting documentary, Lifetime's Surviving R. Kelly, which surrounded first-person allegations of abuse against the R&B star with fresh interviews. They featured everyone from Kelly's high school music teacher to two of his brothers. That approach left little doubt that viewers had seen a wide-ranging narrative that built its case on the foundation of dozens of similar stories. For Leaving Neverland, the lack of outside voices seems a crucial weakness, especially given that both men sued Jackson's estate years after his 2009 death. Their lawsuits were dismissed after judges said they filed claims too late, but their lawyer plans to file an appeal. https://www.npr.org/2019/03/01/699208558/neverland-makes-a-powerful-but-one-sided-case-against-the-king-of-pop So sleeping in a bed equals sex no matter what......everyone who gets in a bed only gets in for sex, literally nothing else , there's more witnesses and people saying otherwise. AH so you have to be "relevant" to be telling the truth He's extremely relevant in this case as is everyone who was ever a kid in Michael Jackson's life, relevancy means nothing, witnesses and people that knew the man do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarrylf Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 "the right questions" She'd have a inch more credibility over this....if OWN wasn't streaming it too Getcho rattings up girl! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 1 hour ago, jarrylf said: I'm waiting until I have 4 hours of comedy to spare today, but you don't need to when that's literally EVERY positive & negative response AND the directors proud goal of the doc, to be 1 sided. And no, like many reviewers say, by definition, documentaries of this nature especially are supposed to present opposing sides so I think it's you who's confused dear It doesn't make what Corey's saying factual, but his word carries more weight than theirs and he's more credible than both of them on this subject. I mean does Dahlmer's neighbor have a history of destroying other cannibals in their life? at about 40 minutes in ....its not comedy you start to watch their every fucking move eye movement body language anything that indicates something is off. I would say of the two, Wade alarms me the most, he's the bad actor here, and he comes off very angry but not because of abuse but more like he's bitter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackCat1989 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 On 3/4/2019 at 11:20 AM, Bailey said: If you can understand MJ had the mind of a child in the sense he didnt have his own childhood one could understand the idea he befriends children due to trust issues with adults, I can imagine MJ seeing himself as a kid I understand that he didn't have a childhood. But Michael did not have the mind of a child. I have worked with people who have the mind of a child. I'm talking about a man who is 55 with the mind of a 7or 8 year old. Michael acted child like in certain situations. He was not like that at all times. People who actually have the mind of a child are that way 24/7. Michael's former bodyguards have talked about him supposedly being with many women. Is this child like too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackCat1989 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 I'm not on anybody's side at the end of the day because I see bullshit on both sides. I see what the media and Oprah is trying to do. Because they've been doing it for decades now. But I also see and can call out Michael's bullshit too. No grown man childhood or no childhood should be that obsessed with having children and specifically boys around all the damn time. I also believe his marriage to Lisa P. was a sham. Done to divert attention away from those allegations. I'm not fooled by the media nor am I going to sit up here and act like what Michael was doing wasn't suspect asf. I don't know if Wade and Jimmy are telling the truth. But there was something really wrong with Michael. And I suspect he had been violated in his youth and not just by Joe. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dal Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 I am the biggest MJ fan that I know in my own real life....and this shit is devastating to me... what made my stomach hurt was seeing all of the different faxes he sent to Wade... ive always felt like something was def off with his relationships with boys.. I even acknowledged that just the simple act of having another person’s son in his room alone was already inappropriate, regardless of any type of sexual activity taking place...but I always told myself that he couldn’t have been an actual criminal.. Today, right now, at this moment...i no longer believe that to be the case.. even if James and Wade embellished the sexual details, even is 10% of the sexual details are true—that’s still too much for me to continue to defend.. i don’t believe I’ll ever stop listening to MJ’s music fully, but I don’t think going to forward that I will try to “push” his art on anymore friends and family, especially my own children .. i wish MJ were still alive to defend himself again, but I also think that if he was then this would surely kill him or send him to jail (if still legally possible)... a year ago I told my wife that I’m glad he was gone because I don’t think he would have been able to surivive this new #metoo culture, not even knowing at the time that this doc was coming...but now I’m sure that he wouldn’t have been able to make it.. now im only preparing myself mentally to sometime in the near future hear more of these stories from other boys... this is overwhelming for me 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EphraimAdamz Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 I'm a DJ, it's not my job to "mute" music or censor art unless the song itself has offensive lyrics. Michael's hasn't sung anything that would need to be pulled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackCat1989 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 3 hours ago, Dal said: I am the biggest MJ fan that I know in my own real life....and this shit is devastating to me... what made my stomach hurt was seeing all of the different faxes he sent to Wade... ive always felt like something was def off with his relationships with boys.. I even acknowledged that just the simple act of having another person’s son in his room alone was already inappropriate, regardless of any type of sexual activity taking place...but I always told myself that he couldn’t have been an actual criminal.. Today, right now, at this moment...i no longer believe that to be the case.. even if James and Wade embellished the sexual details, even is 10% of the sexual details are true—that’s still too much for me to continue to defend.. i don’t believe I’ll ever stop listening to MJ’s music fully, but I don’t think going to forward that I will try to “push” his art on anymore friends and family, especially my own children .. i wish MJ were still alive to defend himself again, but I also think that if he was then this would surely kill him or send him to jail (if still legally possible)... a year ago I told my wife that I’m glad he was gone because I don’t think he would have been able to surivive this new #metoo culture, not even knowing at the time that this doc was coming...but now I’m sure that he wouldn’t have been able to make it.. now im only preparing myself mentally to sometime in the near future hear more of these stories from other boys... this is overwhelming for me I feel for you. One of the reasons I was never able to invest in Michael fully was because I was always uncomfortable with his relationships with boys. It just alway bothered me. And as someone who was a victim of childhood sexual abuse... Seeing Jimmy's pain written all over his really bothered me. And it felt familiar...I think a lot of MJ fans don't want to watch this documentary because they are afraid they will believe Wade and Jimmy. I wish you all the luck. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illi Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 My question for @Dal is were they able to sufficiently corroborate their claims or were they able to evoke emotion to cause you to believe them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dal Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 1 hour ago, Illi said: My question for @Dal is were they able to sufficiently corroborate their claims or were they able to evoke emotion to cause you to believe them? You watch it and then tell me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laveaux Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 Looks like some radio stations in New Zealand and Norway are cancelling his music....for now ...not cute Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 18 hours ago, Voodoo said: Looks like some radio stations in New Zealand and Norway are cancelling his music....for now ...not cute they'll get over the shit and we'll be back to playing him, this is done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 18 hours ago, Dal said: You watch it and then tell me the latter and not the former, they made people feel some kinda way, but they presented zero evidence NONE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laveaux Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 46 minutes ago, Bailey said: the latter and not the former, they made people feel some kinda way, but they presented zero evidence NONE They get you with the music and long pauses....when I watched the R Kelly documentary, I wasn't watching for the information, I became more interested in how the information was being presented and I was pretty damn impressed. Everytime they said something damaging about R Kelly, they would flash to a clip of an older him gyrating on the stage...that's some programming type shit. If I didn't know R Kelly was trash before I would believe it after that. So I can only imagine the bells and whistles they used to drag MJ... fortunately I've always gave MJ the side eye so I don't need a documentary to tell me he is problematic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 42 minutes ago, Voodoo said: They get you with the music and long pauses....when I watched the R Kelly documentary, I wasn't watching for the information, I became more interested in how the information was being presented and I was pretty damn impressed. Everytime they said something damaging about R Kelly, they would flash to a clip of an older him gyrating on the stage...that's some programming type shit. If I didn't know R Kelly was trash before I would believe it after that. So I can only imagine the bells and whistles they used to drag MJ... fortunately I've always gave MJ the side eye so I don't need a documentary to tell me he is problematic. The play on the MJ "documentary" was being as graphic as hell, I mean they took it to another level and honey let me tell you I had it down to the minute when shit took a muthafucking turn arounf 40 minutes in first part. I refuse to entertain any more of this matter so I will not watch the second part. R Kelly had me because it was sooooooo salicious and you had crying women and pictures of young girls and stories of him hanging around schools and shit ...chile ohhhhh and there was ONE really BIG DETAIL R KELLY IS STILL ALIVE 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laveaux Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenzo88 Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 I honestly STILL don’t believe it!!! These allegations have been going on for years until his abrupt n timely death n ur telling me 10 years. 10. YEARS. Later!!! There is new evidence to support that Micheal was indeed a demented sexual predator when it came to young boys. The thing with Micheal is, they aren’t showing the other side of things! Both Maculay Culkin and Corey Feldman have both denounced and defended Micheal for YEARS!!! testified in court on his behave and continue to do so with absolutely NOTHING to gain from this!!! Not to mention, Wade of all people, who participated in his MTV tribute alongside Janet and all those other choreographers...but suddenly years later, found the strength to confess that his idol was the monster the world perceived him to be!!! Ummmm.... Lets be honest between the 1993 and 2004 allegations, we’ve know one thing!!! This is about money!!! Even one of the supposed first victims admitted years later after his father did that HIS FATHER LIED!!! Corey Feldman stated that again recently n he has been exposing Hollywood/Entertaiment business for how abusive and fabricated it can be! So why would HE LIE?!? Ok, lets look at the TV movies! Let’s look at Micheal’s staff around the house!!! There has been no proof or statements made of him having sex, raping or abusing any of these boys in his bed. I mean damn, there are multiple statements and recreations of Whitney’s absuive marriage and horrifying drug addiction but no real visual or actual legitimate facts that he is a demented pedophile. All we DO know is Micheal’s often strange and shocking behavior was to do with his abscent childhood. Yes Micheal was NOT normal but how normal would you be if you were a superstar by 11, a pop icon by 21 and a music legend by 31??? Would you be considered normal with every move and moment of your life was criticized, documented and judge throughout the world?!! Micheal has the kind of game that was not only scary but apparently deadly. Probably the most famous man in the world during his lifetime and....what...you think the media is going to make him out to be normal??? No...not at all!!! Make sense people!!! Also, I trust Janet and a unbelievable judge of character because how good she is and she would NEVER defend her brother just because HE’S HER BROTHER!!! She has absolutely no poker face and has said she wishes people would have known him like she did! Jesus, there are Home videos of Janet and Micheal playing with said children and your telling me if this were completely true and she noticed something strange, she would keep it a secret because Micheal was her brother!!! Ummmm...nooooooo!!! Do you think “Broken Hearts Heal” would have been so beautiful and genuine with Janet knowing the truth!!! Wrong again!!! Come on people wake up!!! Money should NEVER be the solution to your child’s safety and innocence. Micheal would have attacked physically and target of assassination if these allegations were in fact true but he paid the consciences for not only that but being such a worldwide phenomenon that is sadly no longer with us.... They are even planning to unearth his body from his casket and further examine it for proof....what?!? The unfathomable disrespect for such a human, not even a legend, a human being?!? Just go ahead, take neverland, arrest his children, fine all the living siblings as well as Katherine because this has gone beyond more than Justice like yesterday! Just destroying yet another man legacy because it’s 2019 and these over the top movements need to continue. Some of them are def true, but Micheal!!! Just leave it be!!! Leave it be and let God decide because almost a decade ago, he did and Micheal has other things to worry about since then, innocent or not!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJATL Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 The defense I see in here of MJ sounds like Trump supporters defending that fool. Y'all living in denial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bu. Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 53 minutes ago, JJATL said: The defense I see in here of MJ sounds like Trump supporters defending that fool. Y'all living in denial. Boy bye. Unlike trump supports and people that believe the one sided mockumentary we’re looking at all sides and not ignorantly ignoring facts. Quit projecting 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenzo88 Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 4 hours ago, JJATL said: The defense I see in here of MJ sounds like Trump supporters defending that fool. Y'all living in denial. You seem VERY biased and close minded! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarrylf Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 4 hours ago, Lenzo88 said: You seem VERY biased and close minded! And we all know that's not Trump-like The "doc" & director tell people to think he's guilty and discourage them from looking at facts and they do and then complain about people fact checking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJATL Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 OH, and OJ is innocent too, right? Come on folks. Get your heads out of the sand. None of us wants our heroes to go down in flames like this, but we also need to look at the bigger picture here. Lives were forever ruined. I've always been a big MJ fan and obviously a HUGE JJ fan, but there comes a time when you can't ignore the obvious truth staring you in the face. I watched this thing with a very open mind, but was actually looking for signs of BS from these two guys or their families, and they just weren't there. It was real, raw emotion, and you could tell it was uncomfortable to talk about after bottling it up for so long. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bu. Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 2 hours ago, jarrylf said: And we all know that's not Trump-like The "doc" & director tell people to think he's guilty and discourage them from looking at facts and they do and then complain about people fact checking They cut out parts that have been proven to be untrue in the UK airing . For example the fake “memorabilia” burning amongst other stuff. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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