jarrylf Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I was hanging with my family today, and my cousin (who's not a fan of MJ or Janet but likes a few of their albums) just asked me out of the blue, "why didnt Rhythm Nation beat Thriller?" He went on to say that he loves both but he liked RN more (a fact I didnt know before today, but I share, I think Off the Wall was better than Thriller) but he said he thought then and now that RN should've at least almost matched Thriller as far as it being a actual concept album, the platform, and the awards. He feels the same way about the Velvet Rope but more so about RN. I didnt know how to answer that question, right this sec as I type this out, I still dont, but I do definitely agree. It at least desserved more than 1 damn grammy (for best video on top of that), but I dont know. And Im not downplaying that Thriller is a great album, but Im more so saying RN should've at least got Janet half way to that... in my opinion, thats how great I think RN is. Do you guys think RN really could've/SHOULD've given Thriller a run for its money, and if yes why do you think it didnt? (this aint about Janet vs. MJ, so lets not turn it into that...was very hesitant about this topic for that reason....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOtherFan Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 IMO Because "Thriller" was a once in a lifetime thing. It was everything coming together at the right time. Rhythm Nation definitely should have been bigger, which is insane to think about, considering just how big RN was...but it could have and should have been even bigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarrylf Posted October 31, 2011 Author Share Posted October 31, 2011 IMO Because "Thriller" was a once in a lifetime thing. It was everything coming together at the right time. Rhythm Nation definitely should have been bigger, which is insane to think about, considering just how big RN was...but it could have and should have been even bigger. Yea I dont think that it should've beat Thriller, but yea like you said its insane to think about the legacy that that album has but for it to not've been bigger, like really thinking about it, I really think that album should've been for Janets career what Thriller was to Michaels, and its way it definately was, it boosted her to get ALOT of respect, def more than she got for Control, but..... I just feel like it could've been the album that at least got halfway to Thriller. Like I said tho, this thought is really new to me tho, I NEVER thought of this, but Im really thinking about it now...........that 1 grammy win for best video always pissed me off tho, like for real? Yea it was well desserved, but that shouldve been 1 of the insignificant grammy's she won for that album Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOtherFan Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Yea I dont think that it should've beat Thriller, but yea like you said its insane to think about the legacy that that album has but for it to not've been bigger, like really thinking about it, I really think that album should've been for Janets career what Thriller was to Michaels, and its way it definately was, it boosted her to get ALOT of respect, def more than she got for Control, but..... I just feel like it could've been the album that at least got halfway to Thriller. Like I said tho, this thought is really new to me tho, I NEVER thought of this, but Im really thinking about it now...........that 1 grammy win for best video always pissed me off tho, like for real? Yea it was well desserved, but that shouldve been 1 of the insignificant grammy's she won for that album In a way it's that it didn't become that big for Janet, because the same thing that happened to Mike would've happen to her. Everything being compared to RN and everything deemed by the media to be flop because it didn't outsell RN. I think RN's legacy is great though and will become even greater as we all get older. I think Janet overall will become even more respected by the media and the public (we aren't quite there yet, but it's coming) As for the Grammys they have been shady to both Janet and Mike. After all the awards MJ won for Thriller he barely won Grammys after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarrylf Posted October 31, 2011 Author Share Posted October 31, 2011 In a way it's that it didn't become that big for Janet, because the same thing that happened to Mike would've happen to her. Everything being compared to RN and everything deemed by the media to be flop because it didn't outsell RN. I think RN's legacy is great though and will become even greater as we all get older. I think Janet overall will become even more respected by the media and the public (we aren't quite there yet, but it's coming) As for the Grammys they have been shady to both Janet and Mike. After all the awards MJ won for Thriller he barely won Grammys after that. Yea I cant figure why the Grammy's were like that with Janet and I forgot they were about Mike (I always thought History should've gotten WAY more than it did, not just cause of scream but because of They Dont Really Care About Us, Childhood, Earth Song, You Are not alone, & above them all Stranger In Moscow). I mean they both have made some AMAZING songs. Hell you know I think Off The Wall desserved wayyyy more than it got. And yea I love all of RN's accomplishments, and how people who are younger than the album itself are doing either dance moves, fashion, or music styles that that album & era launched. I always thought RN desserved much more than it got, but I never compared it to MJ's success. And yea your right about at least it not being the blueprint by the critics, but at the same time, ALOT of people really do look at it that way. OOOOOOOH, new question, do you think if MJ released RN in 89, EXACTLY how it is, it would've beaten Thriller? (THAT JUST CAME TO ME) My answer to that is, YES, I really do, if he kept the cap, 1814, black & white videos, etc. etc. I do think that might've been the closest he came to matching Thriller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOtherFan Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Yea I cant figure why the Grammy's were like that with Janet and I forgot they were about Mike (I always thought History should've gotten WAY more than it did, not just cause of scream but because of They Dont Really Care About Us, Childhood, Earth Song, You Are not alone, & above them all Stranger In Moscow). I mean they both have made some AMAZING songs. Hell you know I think Off The Wall desserved wayyyy more than it got. And yea I love all of RN's accomplishments, and how people who are younger than the album itself are doing either dance moves, fashion, or music styles that that album & era launched. I always thought RN desserved much more than it got, but I never compared it to MJ's success. And yea your right about at least it not being the blueprint by the critics, but at the same time, ALOT of people really do look at it that way. Off The Wall received ONE grammy...that is just unbelievable if you ask me. Also, I believe it was on this forum where I learned that Rhythm Nation wasn't even nominated for Album of the Year. Even if Janet would've lost...it's UNACCEPTABLE that the RN album didn't even get an Album of the year nomination. Especially, since the album (I believe) was THE biggest album of 1990. The shade is THICK in the industry when it comes to Mike and Janet, unfortunately. OOOOOOOH, new question, do you think if MJ released RN in 89, EXACTLY how it is, it would've beaten Thriller? (THAT JUST CAME TO ME) My answer to that is, YES, I really do, if he kept the cap, 1814, black & white videos, etc. etc. I do think that might've been the closest he came to matching Thriller No, because the media was in FULL backlash mode on MJ by the late 80's and early 90's. If you look back on those times, he was still having massive success but the ridicule had already begun by the time he released "Bad" and it only got worse with each year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Wonder Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Well, first off, your thought process is correct: Off The Wall >>>>>>>> Thriller. Anyone who disagrees probably thinks Cassie can sing and has bad breath. Secondly, no album by a female was going to match Thriller. Females in general typically sell less than men, known fact. The timing of Thriller was perfect, the music video had been conceptualized, which was something the world hadn't seen yet. There was also the Motown 25 where we first saw the moonwalk being popularized. Also, that was when dance was being used as a centerpiece in performances. It also helped that OTW SLAYED across the globe. With RN, there was nothing the world hadn't really seen, but it was the first that a woman did what Janet did. No Black female had gotten a Michael-esque level of acclaim for a project like Janet did. Plus it helped that Janet broke a door for her to crossover, despite RN being an R&B album with influences from different genres. Plus, the sound of RN isn't as secular as Thriller. RN did for Janet what OTW did for Michael in terms of breaking into the international market, hence why their follow up projects were massively successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOtherFan Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Well, first off, your thought process is correct: Off The Wall >>>>>>>> Thriller. Anyone who disagrees probably thinks Cassie can sing and has bad breath. :lmao: :lmao: Secondly, no album by a female was going to match Thriller. Females in general typically sell less than men, known fact. Though I'm sure you will pull out the stats to prove me wrong (lol), I disagree with this. I've always felt that the "big" female artists tend to sell more than their male counterparts. Especially in recent years. Perhaps, that's something that started with Janet, Mariah, Madonna, but that's what I've noticed. With RN, there was nothing the world hadn't really seen, but it was the first that a woman did what Janet did. No Black female had gotten a Michael-esque level of acclaim for a project like Janet did. Plus it helped that Janet broke a door for her to crossover, despite RN being an R&B album with influences from different genres. Plus, the sound of RN isn't as secular as Thriller. RN did for Janet what OTW did for Michael in terms of breaking into the international market, hence why their follow up projects were massively successful. This I do agree with, Janet was probably the first black female to get that type of acclaim for a project. Janet broke down that door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Wonder Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 :lmao: :lmao: Though I'm sure you will pull out the stats to prove me wrong (lol), I disagree with this. I've always felt that the "big" female artists tend to sell more than their male counterparts. Especially in recent years. Perhaps, that's something that started with Janet, Mariah, Madonna, but that's what I've noticed. This I do agree with, Janet was probably the first black female to get that type of acclaim for a project. Janet broke down that door. In recent years yes. But in the 70s and 80s, men were outselling women easily when you look at the biggest acts of the decade. Take Stevie and Donna for the 70s, Stevie sold more. Take Michael and Madonna for the 80s, Michael sold more. It wasn't until the 90s when the Untouchables - Janet, Madonna, Celine, Whitney, and Mariah - started to outsell all male acts. Though Garth Brooks and Boyz II Men did sell an impressive amount of records from the late 80s until 99. No other Black woman had received that level of acclaim matched with success. I would go out on a limb and say Janet was the first woman PERIOD to receive that level of dominance. Per Billboard, "...and never before in history has a woman won this unprecedented number of awards." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarrylf Posted October 31, 2011 Author Share Posted October 31, 2011 WOW..............Im REALLY feeling those responses, and I completely feel both points Another cool thing is that from what it seems and what she says, she didnt go into making RN to make it beat Thriller, or for the acclaim and recognition, that alone is highly respected, and I can feel that about the project, she wasnt trying to do what Control did, and she wasnt trying to do what Thriller did. Its 1 of my favorite things about Janet and Control, RN, janet., & TVR all 4 of those albums, are like 1st albums, and were all out to be something so different and they were so different from each other. And Yea it was the biggest selling album of 1990, for it not to get a album of the year recognition is beyond crazy and shade. I mean...what the fufk else did the people in charge of that want? It had gret reviews (from critics and the public), it had it after hit after hit, chart success that hasnt been topped yet (in 22 fucking years) and it had mass apeal..........but it didnt get 1 nomination or nod for the albums content, just for that 1 video....that really is disgusting to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idrag4mj Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Very interesting topic ...If both albums were released the same year it could've gone both way actually The success of thriller in a way could've catapulted Rhythm nation ...Or thriller would completely over shadow Rhythm so greatly that it would flop badly ...we really won't know which it is..but personally i have never understood the hype about thriller smh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escapade Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Well, first off, your thought process is correct: Off The Wall >>>>>>>> Thriller. Anyone who disagrees probably thinks Cassie can sing and has bad breath. Lies Bad & Dangerous slay that thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janetDAYZ Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Wonder Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Lies Bad & Dangerous slay that thing. Do not quote me if you're going to post lies sis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idrag4mj Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Do not quote me if you're going to post lies sis. they are not lies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escapade Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Do not quote me if you're going to post lies sis. Lmao I hate you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kishi Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 I don't believe in shoulda, coulda, woulda. Going into the past and dissecting what could have been done differently isn't productive. "Thriller" is the biggest selling album of all time. "Rhythm Nation 1814" wasn't made to break the latter's records or become a bigger era. Both are classic albums with a ton of success, let it rest there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Wonder Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 they are not lies They absolutely are. Lmao I hate you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henrietta. Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 IMO Because "Thriller" was a once in a lifetime thing. It was everything coming together at the right time. Rhythm Nation definitely should have been bigger, which is insane to think about, considering just how big RN was...but it could have and should have been even bigger. This and Janet wasn't in the Illuminate unlike Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janetDAYZ Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 I don't believe in shoulda, coulda, woulda. Going into the past and dissecting what could have been done differently isn't productive. "Thriller" is the biggest selling album of all time. "Rhythm Nation 1814" wasn't made to break the latter's records or become a bigger era. Both are classic albums with a ton of success, let it rest there. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Preach,J.Cole..PREACH!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotboy06 Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 RN will arguably be Janet's most iconic era. The era broke barriers and records and sealed her place in pop history. It was the album that put her up there with her brother, Madonna, Prince, etc. It spanned three calendar years and didn't last like two seconds. It was an EVENT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reyna ♔ Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 There's no such thing as an Illuminati Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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