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ThatOtherFan last won the day on August 21 2016

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  1. You didn't express any skepticism in that thread. Any questions you had related more so to do with the Number Ones Tours (Which was going on at the time) and trying to gauge figures for that. That's it. Which is the point. Rhythm Nation isn't included, and over half the dates from the janet. - AFY tours are missing. Literally, millions of tickets aren't accounted for. Were most of the reported dates from the AFY era (Which has most of the available box off data from those three tours)? If so, Janet played some of her biggest venues with the janet and VR tours. Multiple 30-50,000 seat venues could be missing from the reported data. It's all guestimate work, because Janet's team chose not to report the majority of her tour dates. BTW, the Vanity article reported actual overall touring revenue, not figures based on inflation (Again, even Forbes didn't counter that). The original figures I linked were off by $100 million from the Vanity stats, and your figures are off by over $200 million. Meaning, Janet did better than either calculation, excluding inflation. The 2008 press release mentions the capacity of the stadium itself. - The first international shows were in Japan, where she sold out the Tokyo Dome (48,000 capacity) - Not people in attendance. Which exactly how we worded it in the video, with the actual capacity of the venue (From the Tokyo Dome site). BTW, 55,000 is the capacity for the end stage configuration. The venue can hold 60-70,000 with the open floor stage set up. As with the example I made about Janet's overall album sales, further investigation sometimes reveals something different. Even in that press release, Janet's team quotes the 100 million total that they were using at that time There's no way she sold 60 million records since 2008. Meaning her team researched and updated stats when necessary. Do you have the official break down of the 160M tally? If not, I have to go with the sources that say RN's updated tally is nearly 20 million world wide. Yes, it is arguing semantics, because she was the first artist to do in the decades mentioned, regardless. It's only an issue now, because you're nitpicking to satisfy your own ego. Everything you've mentioned have been things we simply disagree on, and that's fine. You're picking at any and every "inaccuracy" (even things you misread and/or misheard) to make yourself feel better. I get it. I'm not going to let you belittle this project for the sake of your ego, though.
  2. You never brought up any issue you had in the original thread. Also, it wasn't challenged by you (or anyone else) in that UKmix thread that you are sourcing. So, what exactly is your primary source? There are a multitude of issues here. The All For You Tour grossed $55 million (According to your receipts). That would mean she earned over half of her entire touring gross from just the AFY tour? Does Billboard Boxscore only cover North American dates or worldwide? If it's worldwide, even according to YOUR receipts Janet performed 312 shows with the janet, VR, and AFY tours. If it's just the North American dates, like most artists, the majority of her dates (over half) are usually in North America She would have more than 161 dates with just her North American dates (She performed 68 shows in the US for just the AFY tour alone). If she only sold 2 million tickets for those three tours, she would be averaging less than 700,000 attendance per those tour. Her overall attendance was higher for just the AFY dates. I mean, higher than the 700,000 average. That means, even less people attended the janet. and VR tours. BTW, your receipt has Janet grossing $256 million (without inflation). The link I'm quoting gauges it at $315 million. Janet's team released figures of $458 million (without inflation). Forbes never contested that figure, They just said she wasn't a billionaire. Obviously, Janet did better than the receipts either one of us are using. Hence, we can disagree, but that doesn't negate the receipts we used, and it doesn't give you the right to attempt to destroy the credibility of our work. In some instances, we also quote facts showing that she did better than Michael, and he is my favorite artist other than Janet. Making comparisons to show what Janet accomplished and to educate is just that. You misheard the video because you were insistent upon finding any and every single "inaccuracy" to discredit the work we did. Also, I'm not negating Janet's press release, but as with the example I made about Janet's overall album sales (100m, then 140m, and now 160m), further investigation sometimes reveals something different. The Tokyo Dome official site says it's capacity is 55,000. It doesn't give information based on stage set up. In fact, the other articles I quoted lists over 70,000 being the maximum capacity based on stage configuration. Which points to 55,000 capacity being the lowest possible. Did Janet's team give a breakdown of the additional 20 million records (that exceed even your calculations) of her total sales? No, they did not. However, some sources have confirmed 18 million copies sold for RN. That's what we went with. That's arguing semantics. She was still the first to do it, regardless. Which is what was included in the video. If that was one of your few "complaints" or issues with the video, I could understand, but you attempted to destroy the credibility of nearly half the video because of your own bruised ego.
  3. Comment from the thread I linked. In fact, the very FIRST comment in that thread. In fact, you never questioned the receipts at any point in that thread. To refresh your memory: http://planetjanet.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/4166-an-in-depth-look-at-janet-jacksons-tour-history-over-the-years/# Another interesting fact, the same tour stats from the thread I linked, are posted in that UKmix thread. Surprisingly (because I know what UKmix gives) No one questioned them. In fact, it is among the last posts in that particular thread. Speaking of UKMIX, It can't be same the UKMIX forum where they have had serious debates about whether Rhythm Nation really moved 14 million copies? That doubts the janet. album moved 20 million units.The same forum that has questioned the 140 million records sold receipt? Which even calls into question your own receipts. That forum? As with Control's Grammy, it's only an issue now, because of your personal issue with me. That's fine. BTW, if you don't remember, the Blueprint video was originally released in three parts. YEARS apart. The Control Grammy fact was in part one. You could've easily corrected me at any point. I even made some changes to the video before combining the three parts and uploading it as one complete video. You didn't have a personal issue with me then. Your ego wasn't bruised then. I said Madonna AND Tina Turner followed Janet playing dates at that stadium, because they did. Am I saying Janet is better than Tina, or did I simply use that fact to point out Janet did it first, and was playing stadiums outside the states? Thereby showing just how much of dominate figure she was as a touring act. You're so blinded by your issues with me that you can't even quote the video correctly. The video says, and I quote, "The first international date of the Rhythm Nation tour took place at the 55,000 seat Tokyo Dome stadium. The stadium sold out in a record 7 minutes. Four more dates were added, which also sold out." What in that claims she sold out eight dates at that stadium? None. ALSO... "The seating capacity of the Tokyo Dome ranges from 55,000-71,000 depending on the set up" http://www.kpopstarz.com/articles/194297/20150420/exo-tokyo-dome-concert.htm Capacity (concerts): 70,000 people http://www.japanconcerttickets.com/venues/tokyo-dome/ From the Tokyo Dome website | Capacity 55,000 persons https://www.tokyo-dome.co.jp/e/dome/architectural.html Even in this instance there are different sources, with various receipts. Do we trust your receipts or mine? Hence, whether you personally agree with these stats, that doesn't negate their inclusion. Janet team's went with 140 Million sold for years leading up to 2016 (After abandoning the 100 Million records sold claim). Did Janet suddenly sell 40 million more records to reach 140 million? Did she sell another 20 million to reach 160 million claim they use now? No. They discovered she's actually sold more. Perhaps that's where the update from 14 million to 18 million copies for RN comes from. Point being, sometimes delving deeper produces different receipts. However, one receipt doesn't negate the other. A healthy debate is fine. There is a difference between that, and actively trying to destroy the credibility of this project because YOUR ego is bruised, we didn't use the receipts YOU prefer, and whatever issues we have. That is just petty, and beneath you. BTW, we've all used the receipt that Janet is the first artist to have a #1 single in three separate decades. Including you. Another fact that I used in the Blueprint video. Not including that she was the first to do it for the 80's - 2000s decades is arguing semantics, because the point remains she was the first to do it.
  4. No, it was an attempt to belittle what I've done and tried to do. It's not the first time he's done it either. BTW, just because I don't brag about it, that doesn't mean I haven't received acknowledgement. I just choose not to share it. Jimmy and Terry won the "Producer of the Year" Grammy for their work on the "Control" album. That's a win for the project it self. Which is was we said. The Control album won 4 AMAs, 6 Billboard Awards, 2 VMAs, and one Grammy. Janet is credited as a producer on the project as well, and either chose not to submit herself in that category to let Jimmy and Terry shine, or The Grammys were being shady (which wouldn't surprise me) BTW, I used that same fact in the "Blueprint" video. Austin didn't take an issue with it then, because he contributed. It's only an issue now because of his personal issue with me, his ego, and his attempt to dismiss this project. It's petty.
  5. And it's still about your ego. You did great work compiling the facts that you have. When I did the Blueprint video it was much appreciated! However, this isn't about who gathered the facts. This isn't about YOU being part of the project. This isn't about the creative direction that YOU think this project, campaign, and video should go in. This isn't even about if YOU disagree with the facts that we used (More on that in a minute). This is about the campaign to get Janet Jackson inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. That's it. All you did was attempt to demean, disregard, and belittle our HARD WORK because YOU didn't like the direction, and because you and I have had issues. That's pathetic. Again, there were close to 10 people that worked to compile these facts and bring this video together. Your motivation was to hurt me. You did hurt me (mission accomplished), but you also hurt others that worked hard to make this project a reality. That's foul. Now as for the facts. Every single fact is accurate.Every single fact is from a verifiable source. For instance, There have been articles (from legitimate sources) stating that RN has sold 18 million copies worldwide. Just one of those articles (from 2014) saying RN has sold nearly 20 million copies worldwide (Which is exactly what was stated in the video). http://www.ew.com/article/2014/09/19/janet-jackson-rhythm-nation-1814-25th-anniversary You disagree with that? That's okay. That doesn't take away from the fact that verifiable sources have stated it. Again, just because you personally don't agree with a fact, that doesn't negate the inclusion of it in our video. Why? Again, this video isn't about Austin's ego. Our tour stats.We did it similarly to how it was done in this thread: http://planetjanet.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/4166-an-in-depth-look-at-janet-jacksons-tour-history-over-the-years/ However, this is based on the average ticket price in 2008. Not accurate to use these receipts for 2016, because ticket prices have increased since 2008. The average ticket price in 2016 is around $120 to $130 (It was $110 in 2008). Not counting the secondary market. The janet. world tour 2.5 million tickets x $130 = $325,000,000.00 (That's slightly higher than the figure we used in the video, btw. We were a tad more conservative with the calculations we presented in the video). As mentioned in that linked thread above, in her prime, Janet had some of the highest ticket prices among touring artists. We could've used that to our advantage, but we didn't. As for us mentioning Janet being the first solo artist to perform at the Gelredome Stadium. If you weren't so blinded with your own ego, and whatever personal issues you have with me, you would know exactly why we used it. Many don't know or deny the fact that Janet was huge internationally in her prime. They call her local, without much worldwide success or impact. She was a major (and dominate) touring act worldwide. What better way to show that than with the fact that Janet was the first solo artist to sell out this STADIUM.... outside of the US? It's the same reason I intentionally used fans from from around the world to recite facts in their native language. It was a subtle way of showing Janet's international influence. The Gelredome fact was a more obvious way of doing that. I shouldn't have to break down our reasons for the inclusion of these facts. Especially not to another Janet fan. For the third or fourth time, this isn't about your ego. This isn't about what you personally believe or agree with. This isn't even about me. It's about the Induct Janet campaign. That's it. If you don't agree with how we did it. That's fine. Do your own thing. Support Janet in your own way. Don't try to create doubt around our heart felt project because of your own ego and/or issues with me. That's not fair to Janet, the fans, or the induct Janet campaign. To end this, perhaps your offers to help would have been taken seriously, if you weren't acting the way you're acting right now. You've turned people off. That's your own doing.
  6. Some things go beyond Twitter and trolling. I have you blocked on Twitter. I don't interact with you. I don't think of you. Leave me alone. You literally went on Twitter and did a whole thread regarding the "inaccuracies" in the Induct Janet video. You literally took the time to tweet 40 things that I "got wrong". 40 individual tweets. All to satisfy your ego, because you weren't part of this project. All because you no longer are the go to person for Janet stats and receipts. You did that to yourself with by acting just as you're acting right now. This is beneath you. We've been a family of sorts on this forum for years now. Nearly ten years we've been part of the PJ forum in one form or another, so I know all of you won't speak on it, but what Austin did is foul. BTW, this project wasn't just MY doing. It was a team of people that made this happen. Including the person behind the Induct Janet campaign, the admins of my group, etc. We ALL worked together to compile these facts. We ALL worked together to get over 100 fans to participate in this project. Around 10 people worked hard to pull this all together. A labor of love to right a wrong. Fuck that though, your ego isn't being satisfied. Every waking moment that I wasn't working or taking care of everyday obligations was spent editing this video. Every. Waking. Moment. I went days without sleep to make this video a reality for the fans and for the Induct Janet initiative. Nearly a week without sleep, and not properly taking care of myself to create this project. To wrap this up, as for the comments about me wasting my time doing this without acknowledgement or a thank you from Janet, because she doesn't care.... I don't do this for acknowledgement from Janet. I do it from the heart. However, without going into specifics, how do you think I was able to upload this video to Facebook, Vimeo, and YouTube without an issue? Exactly. If being right and being included means that much to you, you are a sad individual. I wasn't going to give you the satisfaction of responding to your pettiness, but I'm not going to be bullied or belittled anymore. As someone that's known you for nearly 10 years. As someone that admired you at one time. As someone I considered a friend (even in the online world).. .I am ashamed and disappointed.
  7. There was some initial backlash on Twitter, but that was from people trolling and/or who don't know Janet's discography. That she has always spoken on social issues. Especially those relating to the black community. I'm willing to bet 99% of those "Twitter Activists" didn't even watch the video and have never heard the song. She was being inclusive because her fanbase is so broad. Probably the broadest fan base of any living artist today. However, her sharing a video (from a song she recorded nearly 20 years ago) more than speaks to what she really feels. Some may have been disappointed, but no one should seriously group her with the aforementioned people based on a hashtag.
  8. I don't remember where I read this, but I believe the exclusive contracts Janet signed with Pioneer expire around 2017. It's the reason Janet's team pulled almost all of the bootleg clips of the RN tour off of YouTube. They are probably close to releasing it. Madonna signed a similar contract for the Blonde Ambition tour. In fact, Pioneer still owns the rights to that tour. As for the quality debate. You're both right in different ways. Like that "Wizard of OZ" Blue Ray. You take the best (high quality) print of the production. Restore it from the original negatives, digitally remaster it, and market it as "HD". Basically, it'll look better than you've ever seen it previously, and it can be marketed as "high definition", but by the standard of which productions are now filmed, it's not. It's more so a marketing ploy. lol Game is right in that sense. The RN tour was actually filmed in HD, but it still has to be remastered, and it won't look comparable to HD filmed now. However, it will still look EXCEPTIONAL in quality. Based on the fact that it was actually filmed in HD, and after digital restoring/remastering. Dal is right in that sense. I think it's more so the contracts. It can also be supply and demand. We want it, but is that audience big enough to justify a major release. Even via Netflix. If Janet truly is coming back after having a child, she'll probably do a major release of all the tours with the Unbreakable Tour. That's just a guess.
  9. All of that sounds like a personal problem. Perhaps a jealously that's personal? Whatever the case, I hope you find someone to help you with that. However, I do want to thank you for helping me with the Blueprint video. I remember when myself, you, and Cassidy were talking through the idea. lol I think it was Cassidy's idea originally. She suggested it to me, I thought it was brilliant, and then I came to you for the receipts. lol Uplifting Janet and reminding the world of what she contributed, when so many people were trying to dismiss, deny, and disregard her impact. A labor of love from us meant to spread positivity. You and I did something really great with that video. Fans, causal fans, even people that don't really check for Janet have seen that video. I'm thankful that I was even part of it, much less the one that put it all together. A pity that only one of us continues to try and spread that positivity and uplift Janet in the face of negativity......................
  10. Austin is so pressed by me. He’s mad that outside of one or two people he has NO influence within the Janet fan community. He’s mad that I’m actually doing something with the minuscule (virtually insignificant) platform that I do have. Instead of bitching, moaning, and complaining (or wanting to be right, simply because YOU aren’t happy with an era) He’s mad that even with my small platform, I have the attention of Janet’s team. He’s mad that I called him out for saying certain things because he’s trying to fit in with a certain crowd. So mad that he has to attempt to spread lies in attempt to diminish what I’ve done. So mad that he posted an article from the Inquisitor (written by a KNOWN Madonna stan, using his platform to trash Janet), to prove his “point” However, I’m so glad you did post that article, because I’m going to use it to prove my point…Those of you that care please follow along. First and foremost, the writer of that article is NOT referencing me at any point in that article. Receipts are as follows Notice the highlighted red sections. The same words are highlighted on his site. Click them. They take you to the following articles. more important - Why The “Unbreakable” Janet Jackson Is More Important Than Madonna written by: BY MATTHEW ISMAEL RUIZ http://flavorwire.com/541101/why-the-unbreakable-janet-jackson-is-more-important-than-madonna aging better - Janet Charts an Unbreakable Path for the Aging Pop Star Written by: MICHAEL ARCENEAUX http://www.ebony.com/entertainment-culture/janet-charts-an-unbreakable-path-for-the-aging-pop-star-111#axzz3uZNHMjOv Would you look at that, the actual articles he linked… NOT written by me. BTW, the only other articles linked within that article is an NY Times article listing the 2016 inductees and an article he wrote trashing Janet. Which brings me to my second point. Have you all taken the time to read the articles by that author on that site? If not, let me bring you all up to speed Posted: December 8th 2015 - Janet Jackson Has A Lot To Learn From Adele, Taylor Swift, And Beyoncé That Doesn’t Require A ‘Free’ Uber Ride http://www.inquisitr.com/2619592/janet-jackson-has-a-lot-to-learn-from-adele-taylor-swift-and-beyonce-that-doesnt-require-a-free-uber-ride/ Posted: November 21st 2015 - BRITNEY SPEARS AND JANET JACKSON PLAY LESS THAN FULL HOUSES ON CURRENT TOURS http://www.inquisitr.com/2581893/britney-spears-and-janet-jackson-play-less-than-full-houses-on-current-tours/ Posted November 11th 2015 - JANET JACKSON AND JUSTIN BIEBER OUTRAGE MUSIC INDUSTRY WATCHERS OVER ALLEGED CHART FRAUD http://www.inquisitr.com/2559308/janet-jackson-and-justin-bieber-outrage-music-industry-watchers-over-alleged-chart-fraud/ Posted October 24th 2015 JANET JACKSON ACCUSED OF INFLATING ALBUM SALES WITH CONCERT T-SHIRT BUNDLE http://www.inquisitr.com/2516909/janet-jackson-accused-of-inflating-album-sales-with-concert-t-shirt-bundle/ Posted October 9th 2015 JANET JACKSON WILL DEBUT AT NO. 1 WITH ‘UNBREAKABLE,’ BUT IS EXPECTED TO TAKE GIGANTIC DROP NEXT WEEK http://www.inquisitr.com/2484429/janet-jackson-will-debut-at-no-1-with-unbreakable-but-is-expected-to-take-gigantic-drop-next-week/ Posted September 12th 2015 ‘REBEL HEART TOUR’ PROVES MADONNA TO BE A GREAT VOCALIST: SORRY, JANET JACKSON AND BRITNEY SPEARS http://www.inquisitr.com/2414028/rebel-heart-tour-proves-madonna-to-be-great-vocalist-sorry-janet-jackson-and-britney-spears/ Posted September 5th 2015 JANET JACKSON’S NEW ‘UNBREAKABLE’ SINGLE FALLS OFF ITUNES AFTER JUST ONE DAY http://www.inquisitr.com/2395493/janet-jacksons-new-unbreakable-single-falls-off-itunes-after-just-one-day/ Posted July 13th 2015 JANET JACKSON COMEBACK HIT WITH BAD NEWS AS NO SLEEEP BOMBS http://www.inquisitr.com/2249325/janet-jackson-comeback-hit-with-bad-news-as-no-sleeep-bombs/ Posted July 1st 2015 JANET JACKSON’s ‘NO SLEEP’ DEBUTS AT No. 67: SUCCESS OR FLOP http://www.inquisitr.com/2217673/janet-jacksons-no-sleeep-debuts-at-no-67-success-or-flop/ Posted June 24th 2015 Janet Jackson’s ‘No Sleeep’ Crashes On iTunes After Just One Day http://www.inquisitr.com/2199505/janet-jacksons-no-sleeep-crashes-on-itunes-after-just-one-day/ That is someone using their platform in a negative way. Not only has he trashed Janet, but he’s done so with lies, and/or skewing the truth. I’ve done nothing, but attempt to uplift Janet, and remind people of the success she's had, with the little she’s done so far this era. You want to know why I’m getting attention from Janet’s team (specifically Jimmy Jam)? The articles above (on a MAJOR website) gets spread throughout social media, and each one portray this era negatively with outright lies . My articles get attention, because I spread positivity, and come with facts. Similar to how Janet’s team share ThatGrapeJuice’s articles. TGJ is VERY good to Janet. Just like they are good to Beyonce. They are almost never completely positive when it comes to Rihanna or Mariah (If any of you have noticed lol) BTW, Janet’s team has never shared any of mine on her Twitter account OR on Facebook. Why? I’m not big enough. lol Something I completely understand. Jimmy shares them instead, which I’m okay with, and I’m SHOCKED each time he does. lol Instead of supporting that, you’re jealous because of your own personal feelings about this era, wanting to be right, and the fact that Jimmy shares what myself and others write on my site. That’s petty, sad, and says a lot about you as a person. If you don't like me and what I'm doing... Fine! Don't spread lies. There is no need for that, and I wouldn't do it with you.
  11. It's about seeing the bigger picture for the era, and why things are happening the way they are.
  12. And that's coming in time. Which will give the project itself, and the era as a whole, sustained success (what Janet and team cares about lol). Give it time and let the pieces come together. It's coming in due time.
  13. The meltdowns over Janet not having a traditional campaign The seething because you don't know what's coming Again, the issue is the fact that she's not following the traditional roll out for an album. She's building toward sustained success for the project, not a project that comes and goes within months after it's release (the case for most pop acts these day). She's taking it back to when an artist could work an album for years. 1st - Why didn't Janet do any promo prior to and now just the albums release? Look no further than Madonna.... she went on a major promo tour. Money for that promo tour either came out of Madonna's pockets and/or Live Nation footed the bill. Madonna performed on major award shows and talks shows worldwide. What were the results? She did better than Janet worldwide, but in the US, they literally sold the same amount first week (and overall Janet is about to surpass her, if she already hasn't) . Hundreds of thousands, it not, millions of dollars spent on promotion, and outside of the tour, no one cares about "Rebel Heart" at this point. The hype around Janet's 1st project in seven years has carried the project initially, along with a brilliant choice for the 1st single. She went for the Urban AC market, and they ate it up. "No Sleeep" is still in the top 3, and continues to do so well, it just may go back to #1 for a 10th week on that chart. The "Unbreakable" single is close to breaking the top 10 on Urban AC.... without any promotion. <---- I.E Millions of promo dollars NOT spent. Also, with her being an independent artist, she can sell albums (tied to merchandise) at the tour, and still garner decent numbers and placement on Billboard each week..... again, without any promotion. <---- I.E Millions of promo dollars NOT spent. That sets her for all of 2015 without having to give a single interview or performance (besides the tour), and still have one of the best selling albums of the year. Which sets up her and "Unbreakable" up for the 2nd year into the project (2016). Now when she gives that first major interview, whenever she gives that first major performance, it's still going to be a big deal, because the general public has still yet to hear from her or see her.... <---- Well, look at what we have here.... An effective non-traditional roll out for an album that has sustained success. 2nd - Why no BIU video immediately upon release of the single? Janet and Missy are piggybacking off of each others success. Increased visibility by putting things out around the same time. Janet is nearly 50 and Missy is over 40. Mainstream radio isn't going to jump at playing them. BIU was initially used to push preorders for the album. It was also the first dance track that Janet released from this project. That buzz benefited Janet and Missy, and Janet's team has kept the momentum going by having fans and dancers make videos dancing to BIU. Next, Missy releases the "WTF" video, and it immediately takes off. The single is in the top 5 on iTunes and the video already has 10 million views on Youtube. Radio may or may not, give it major spins, but they are definitely going to spin it thanks to the success it's had. Finally, Janet comes behind that with the BIU video, her first major dance video in seven years. Heavy buzz for that reason alone, and with Missy being a "factor" again, that's going to create even more hype around the video and single. A single that's still going to be fresh to the majority of the public, btw. Which gives it more of a chance on radio. Especially on urban stations if we get a more Urban remix. If some of you would just think (and be patient) instead of getting caught up in the album not having a traditional roll out.........
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