12 hours ago, State of the Game said:

Janet was only banned from Viacom. Not all things. She had plenty of exposure.. more than enough if the music was something which it wasn’t. That’s a fact back up by shit reviews from critics and the fact she over promoted shit singles that wouldn’t land WITHOUT radio support

Nitpicking and likes from like-minded individuals doesn’t prove your point. Y’all just passing the blame. Something JanFam LOVES to do. Don’t blame Janet for her failures...just her successes ?

FACT: The radio ban didn’t force her to perform AN(ds)/S.Ex over and over and over and over. 

Nah the fact that she was banned from mainstream radio and award shows proves my point entirely   Yes that's what happens every single time any artist flops, not only are your songs banned from radio and their back catalog too   Your problem is you're literally victim blaming, she was done wrong in her treatment, and you're  here to justify it, putting it ALL literally on her. Fact is even when we do praise her success we praise the entire team and what others contributed, which is what the right side does with where things go wrong, maybe YOU put all god AND bad on solely her, but that doesn't speak for all of us. And what her appreciation day has taught us is that right now even the gp is more on our side, the era of placing 100% of the blame of women's mistreatment is dead and gone, wake up dear this isn't a fan thing anymore this is a society thing 

FACT: Radio didn't fuck with her PERIOD, new or old music they wanted nothing to do with her, and it literally had nothing to do with the songs with the music.

The end of the story is that with a ban on all things Janet for the gp, the outcome would be exactly the same, and no matter anyone's opinon on the quality, the music wasnt going to be promoted on all levels, period. 

6 hours ago, State of the Game said:

So Exicted is literally the worst example. Zero creativity went into that song about sex which the general public was soooo over at that time and she promoted it waaaay too much for waaaay too long. Put that on top of Radio being agist.

While her promo was ALL HER.. She was every where and millions of eyes watched her or read about her. Nothing stuck bc nothing was worthy aside from Feedback.. harsh reality.

Giving up control for Discipline is not who Janet Jackson is therefore that album is a wash. She had nothing to say and she sure didn’t say anything on it. It was a disappointment.

im not here for “change of direction” and “change of sound”. What she released was the bottom of her barrel career-wise

....the GP being over songs being about sex but the biggest songs that year were about sex (London bridge, sexyback, promiscuous, Check On It, Money Maker,  and Me&U).... 

It's a harsh opinion, but what's a harsh reality is she could've released the 2nd coming of Rhythm Nation and very little would change the outcome of where she is right now because no matter what she put out, radio wasn't gonna fuck with it or her. That's the harshest reality of her career.

4 hours ago, State of the Game said:

 I’m say Janet Jackson was everywhere between 2004-2008 besides radio and nothing stuck.

2

But how could anything stick when it wasn't allowed to? Her promotion was all HER, that's why she was out & about & doing things that Janet had NEVER done doing interviews & photoshoots with publications she never had, she was fighting against the machine. And the sales were off that, off seeing her, off the existing fans, she promoted So Excited more than she has SO many of her biggest & greatest hits, that was the only way she could promote and even get people to know she had anything out, and whether the average gp viewer liked it or not, they  couldn't support the song on major radio formats.

Plus too about the creativity thing, it was taking a dive already by 04, but what we also know is Discipline is the only album where she willingly gave up control on all fronts, DJ she was forced to do more songs and change up alot of things last minute including the direction of the album, the same is known to have happened for 20. We honestly don't know what she originally had planned for both projects but she was forced into last-minute reworking

12 hours ago, State of the Game said:

She could have risen above if she stayed true to her sound. 

...............soooo when radio & video networks (that weren't BET) were banning her music....new and old....for being....hers....you think if they were Great that would've changed her treatment...yet radio wasnt even playing her new stuff at all to even give the gp a chance. Its not that they treated those eras like they didnt exist because they weren't her best, they treated HER like she didnt exist, period

I never get this argument, how her treatment was seemingly "justified" because of the albums. Flop albums from good artists have their chances and then get treated like they dont exist, not the artist ENTIRE catalog & the artist themselves. She hasnt released or done any thing worth all the 'isms in her treatment.

1. Night

2. No Sleeep

31 minutes ago, Khalil said:

Thanks jerry   I know I can watch documentaries and stuff I just want y’all opinions that’s it

I can dig that, that's what I like about your other thread of conversation, this  one though, I get it you want to hear from the ones that experienced it in real time and from their perspectives, but with this comparison, what I've gotten in my experience back when I was new to being a fan and mingling with others, is the answers to that question really presents itself in a obvious type of way. Control was huge, but RN was a complete domination in like every way. The question of which we like better & why might be more helpful than "which was bigger" because our opinions can & do differ on which we'd choose maybe, but  in terms of which was bigger it's only 1 answer.

.......I get that you're new to this....but I swear if you just look up some of her stats & facts, or watch some of her biographic specials through the years, the answer to the question is obvious in a way that this question feels (maybe it's just me) a little...dense. And that's just because it's REALLY easy to see when you look at her information & story. RN lasted successfully through 3 calendar years while control lasted 2, RN had 4 #1s (still the only artist to have 3 #1's from 1 album 3 different years) & Control had 1, RN was her debut tour and holds the record 29yrs later for being the most successful debut tour. That's when her reference in TV shows & movies really started, her influence in fashion was more obvious, tons more awards, tons of respect... 

Here is a good start so is her icon special & her E! True Hollywood story (but good luck finding that online). Her Driven biography special is the BEST for going in depth about her childhood and school issues and all the pre-Rhythm Nation stuff, it's 1 of my favorites but it stops at her 1987 Grammy performance...because they speant so much time giving depth about her childhood, so I wish they had another hour to go more in depth, but for what it is it's great for learning about her challenges before her success. Plus a shit ton of RARE (never before or sense fully released)  pics & footage throughout her life

On 3/19/2018 at 6:00 AM, Illi said:

DM/E

26 minutes ago, hotboy06 said:

LL is nice lyrically..but..

Beautiful soul I haven't met
A spiritual connection I'll never forget
Your precious light incredible
Sharing his love that is meant for us all
Come out of shadows into the light
Be free to imagine the future you'd like
Soaring above all of your boundaries
Yes the day will come
Just remember when you're overwhelmed
Dream and take some time to love yourself
Believe you're free to do whatever you want
No no more room four

Bible worthy. Legend of inclusivity.

LU4L

Sooooo it's been stated and proven over and over that he's been making music like this since before he came out as a solo artist.....yet....you're still saying he JUST started this. You're proving my point that everyone on the side against him don't know enough about either him or what appropriation is to criticize him, more obviously, people are mad that he's made better & more successful R&B than most current R&B artists. THAT'S where this stems from, it makes perfect sense (it happens to EVERY single artist of a different race that gets major success in hip-hop or R&B, whether they appropriate or not they'll be accused of it), what doesn't make sense is calling him out and not knowing he's been this guy all along, watch the interviews, look up the production discography, he started producing music like he makes for other artists and anyone who says otherwise is just wrong and content with being wrong. If it were majority of black people on all social media on the wrong side and dragging him THAT would've been covered by the media, but instead, it's the media INCLUDING the black media trying educate everyone who's wrong on why their wrong.

9 minutes ago, State of the Game said:

I didn’t say you said it first.. did I? 

Doesnt matter when JT did.. it’s what Bruno is doing ??‍♂️

Your implication was that I brought him up in "whataboutism" which you've been harping on, yet, I've only responded to him being brought up, thus you're basically now admitting it doesn't apply to me, thanx

Except it LITERALLY does matter when , that's entirely the point. someones start vs. years into their career. It matters cause it means Bruno's more authentic because he's being who he's really always been, vs. what Justin's trying/learning to be.

13 minutes ago, State of the Game said:

You’re “facts” are whataboutism which makes your point moot.. “what about ____ that Obama did” doesn’t take away the fact that Trump is a terrible president.. much like mentioning JT in a Bruno thread is irrelevant to what Bruno is doing  

Doesn’t matter if JT produce/wrote for other artists after his big debut  He got credit for it. 

I haven’t done the research on Bruno to form an opinion on whether I’m in the minority. I just saw what I saw on twitter and social media

 

Except for the fact that you're actually outright lying I didn't bring Justin up, my 1st post didn't even say his untalented name.....soooo that's 2 Trumpism's for you, alternative facts, and lying as if it's true. AS WELL as the fact that you haven't debunked any of the actual facts I've laid out, period I'm sorry I went this far before I went back to check for good before I called you out on saying "I brought him up" when I knew I didn't....you shoulda beat me to checking on that 

And there's the problem to why his can be seen as trying to fit in, when because  he didn't touch it until he was a certain place in his career, vs. what Bruno built his career off of before he was even a artist, that was a cute try but you gotta let this attempt go, it'll never be the same when details come into it as it's supposed to.

Oh....well I did....you guys are, not only on social media, but in the press, again ALL the press is about either the conversation OR how people accusing him don't know what their talking about, it's not a all out dragging....like other artists have gotten over the same issue.

Im seeing a common thing among the misinformed who use the term appropriation where it doesnt fit. Theyre judging off of the basics, the little they see or know about the artist in question. They don't (/won't) look at the details of the artists entire career and public information about their lives to judge of the title fits or not.

But thats too much work, people would rather be wrong & stay wrong than work for being right it seems. 

1 hour ago, State of the Game said:

FACT: Both artists has produced & written  music for black artists

FACT: Neither are black but stay all up in “black music” (devil’s advocate) 

Whataboutism is literally what you did when you mentioned JT who is NOT apart of the conversation. This thread & topic is about Bruno Mars and his appropriation in music. No one else’s. I mentioned JT to muse those members and people who call out his name to change the subject

Those links are biased towards your opinion.. which is fine. Glad you found a minor publication with the same opinion as you 

You said all that not to disprove anything?...thats the worst Trumpism of all getting presented with facts and saying "I disagree". The 1st fact has already been explained in detail (details matter) why that seperates them. And your 2nd is another fail, Bruno, by crafting his name in R&B & HipHop even before his debut, hell before that I didnt even bring up his dad was in a black band (so again its way more than "some of my favorite artists), thus its overwhelmingly apart of his life and legacy and its easy to check....Justins a dabbler, not the same at all...no matter how hard you try.

FACT: Justin didnt produce shit for other artists until after he was well established as a artist. A

Your words about my sources would be so much more credible if you posted articles saying the contrary to what Im saying, that your opinion is the minority in the discussion....do any...like nobody who agrees with the wrong side has any credited sources on their side from any sites

5 hours ago, State of the Game said:

Doesn’t matter WHEN they wrote or produce songs for black artists... they both did it at some point. 

You have a point if Bruno magically garnered singing powers from some black artist

Doesnt matter when N’SYNC started to garner a black audience. They did it with JT’s song GONE which excelled his career 

Whataboutism is something Trump supporters do to push the attention off Trump. It’s the same thing you’re doing with Bruno

While I love Bruno and this subject doesn’t dismiss his talents and my like for him (or JT)... I just love the double standard amongst male artists of different races.

Doesn’t matter that the “press” you found is “majority for him”... The conversation has started

 

 you ABSOLUTELY cannot be serious, that doesn't make any sense saying it's the same. A unknown Bruno Mars in credits for R&B & HIp hop hits before he was a solo artist is most definitely not the same as Justin in credits after he left his wildly popular pop group to have a pop solo career....yea.....that's so....similar  Bruno came in the game a respected R&B & Hip Hop songmaker behind the scenes before the GP had any idea who he was or what he had accomplished.  Justin came in pop as fuck, and then on his pop groups 3rd pop album dropped a R&B song (that was the 2nd single) ....thats the same? 

Well that sentence doesn't make sense, but what does is that I do have a point because Bruno was making Urban music before his debut album for other artists for years and Justin hadn't which is why it's not appropriation for Bruno

 It absolutely does, they were a pop group that dabbled (just like he's a pop artist that dabbled) after their 1st album, big difference, they didn't break onto the scene that way, 

Whataboutism....is literally all you & Joe have been doing in this conversation "what about J.Lo, what about them, what about Justin" please. I'm keeping it on track and on facts about Bruno.

Um duh, it exists, not all artists are the same and have the same backgrounds and beginnings, it's baffling to me that you're trying to argue that he & Justin do when the differences are huge. Give it up, this connection you're trying to force between Justin & Bruno literally nobody sees, the reason, is because even if Bruno was white it still wouldn't be the same if he was white and had the same background and journey, which is being a successful producer of hip hop & R&B music before he even dropped his 1st single......that's where him being genuine with his passion for this music comes from, that's why it's more believable, and authentic then leaving it simply with "oh I loved listening to R&B artists as a kid", that's Justin, Bruno was making R&B music and getting hits and money with it before his voice appeared on a track....if that's the same to you as "I grew up listening".......then you're content with being wrong

The problem with your analysis of the situation and why it won't affect him is the conversation....is mostly about the conversation and how many  don't even understand what they're talking in the name of appropriation, it'd be a different thing if it was a overwhelming "oh....that's true", the way it was for Justin, but no the fact is the conversation is heavily about it not fitting him and most people defending that it doesn't fit him.

5 hours ago, State of the Game said:

Those links are opinionated

Nearly every single publication that's run with this story is opinionated, and those that aren't are just posting about the conversation, and again the vast majority is pointing out how wrong the side calling him out is and how they don't know what they're talking about.

Id be for it especially if she were willing to experiment with her voice and different types of ballads, I wouldnt want a album where everything sounds the same, and that goes for a dance or mid-tempo album too, mix it up

..........yall do know ignoring facts dont make them disappear or wrong right  

All the press this is getting isnt dragging him, its dragging all yall who dont know what appropriation is

No, Bruno Mars Is Not Guilty of ‘Cultural Appropriation’

https://www.thedailybeast.com/no-bruno-mars-is-not-guilty-of-cultural-appropriation

https://thegrapevine.theroot.com/the-bruno-mars-controversy-proves-people-don-t-understa-1823709412

2 hours ago, State of the Game said:

So.. who cares if he produced and wrote for Black artists... btw JT has produced both Rihanna & Beyoncé songs  sooooooo 

JT started in the 90s with his group.. an R&B & pop group that BET literally played on HEAVY rotation... but let’s not talk about Bruno... let’s bring up JT, Xtina, & JLo

Whataboutism at its FINEST

So you're saying Justin produced for Bey & Rih before he debut'd in 97.....because thats the ONLY way that would be relateable....to the point that Bruno got his start as a R&B & Hip hop producer & songwriter before anyone knew who he was as a artist....

Um....his group didnt get into R&B until their 2nd album....they spent the entire 90s being pop (and only pop) as fuck.

You want to bring up other artists in a attempt to change the subject which is a admission of defeat? Sure, lets discuss

2 hours ago, State of the Game said:

 HuffPost is pushing this story

what did Bruno do to deserve this?!? Omg  RIP Bruno Mars career

Um...if the debate was overwhelmingly against him youd have a point but the fact that the majority in the debate are calling out how people acusing him are wrong, theres no real harm that thats being discussed, it's not like when Justin went all "ALM"...or "man of the weak"...or doing the lamest superbowl ever....its not that, hell its not even a threat to his success...the shows are selling, the songs are still on the charts

I really do like that majority seems to be on the right side, The Root slayed in explaining why people sound nuts right now trying to call him out.

https://thegrapevine.theroot.com/the-bruno-mars-controversy-proves-people-don-t-understa-1823709412

6 hours ago, JoeJoe said:

See Kishi I didn't mind Bruno when he was doing stuff like that. Just The Way You Are is one of my faves but that's not like anything he's doing now. Now he just straight up doing a J. Lo and that's why Blacks are calling him out. Bruno is cool with me and he's very talented but what he's doing right now is straight up Karaoke. I love the music he's doing but I won't deny what he's doing.

That doesnt make sense tho, if this is the kind of music ultimately hes been making as a writer & producer since before his debut lead single that means this is who hes always been, his discography as a whole has more R&B hip hop & funk than it does pop. Thats why anyone arguing hes appropriating is wrong.

58 minutes ago, State of the Game said:

Replace Bruno with JT  JT grew up with R&B but he’s “appropriating”... both give credit.. one is white. The other is not

JT was great and he’s talented in a sense. 

This came up in JT’s thread. Yet Bruno doing the same shit. I guess JT evolved  

Game.....they dont remotely compare. Bruno doesn't just give credit, and he wasnt just raised on it, he made a name for himself as a producer & writer in Urban genres before becoming a pop star. The same cant be said for Justin, Justin came out pop AF, THEN Down the line started dipping in R&B. So this is talented Bruno apples and untalented Justin oranges.

These celebs are schoolin fools.

http://cnn.it/2GkBioE

Again it's a very ignorant & uninformed opinion to make about him and Latino artists that cross over into hip hop & R&B. The ignorance over "he won the Grammy's he did making that music cause he's not black" would make sense if there were tons of mainstream black artists making similar albums, selling the same or more and having the same kinds of hits or impacts with them. It's not happening right now, period. R&B artists today are busy making EDM mumble rap with the same beats, busy with trying to sound "Current". Bruno made the best R&B album I've heard in years, he wrote them songs, composed them,  played most of the instruments & properly credits every artist, producer & musician that inspired everything he does, and he's been that way from jump. AND AGAIN.....as I said months ago.....Hip Hop culture has Latin roots to it too, it's not a black thing and anyone who thinks it is is uninformed and doesn't know the history, and need to look up the stories of hip hop pioneers

2 hours ago, JoeJoe said:

You mad huh? And sampling is different from cultural appropriation. Bruno got a hit with "Uptown Funk" and then next thing you know the rest of his songs are using the same formula and now he's pop-lockin, be boppin', and swag droppin. Bruno was never like this before. He doing the same thing J. Ho did when she got a hit with black music and next thing you know she was doing the same shit. Let's get it together

Problem with your theory Joe, why it doesn't add up, he started in this industry as a producer and songwriter....MOSTLY for R&B & Hip hop artists.....his  1st 2 features, that were on hip hop artists songs....In all his interviews throughout his career, he's been referencing R&B & Hip Hop artists since the beginning, same with his swag and style, it's all in the interviews, he's exactly the same and anyone who pays attention will say it, he was like this before.

Broken Hearts....that's been here too long