jarrylf Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 How are they Christian if they don't believe in the divinity of Jesus? That's the premise he gave for taking what he said to be true. That he was the son of god. You can believe in the ideas/philosophies but not be Christian. That's what I don't get about moderation. Personally i don't think you have to believe Jesus ever even existed to follow the teachings that you find fitting for you. I think being a "good christian" or any person of faith has less to do with what you read/believe and more so what you're doing and how you're living your life and treating others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reyna ♔ Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Personally i don't think you have to believe Jesus ever even existed to follow the teachings that you find fitting for you. I think being a "good christian" or any person of faith has less to do with what you read/believe and more so what you're doing and how you're living your life and treating others. I agree with that first line. Where we disagree is on whether or not it makes you a Christian(which derives from the RELIGION of Christianity) or any other religion. The main tenet that Jesus used as a basis for his teaching is that he was the son of god and that you don't get heaven or blessings without accepting that. Which means you aren't a Christian unless you follow that. Following some teachings alone doesn't make you moderate or fundamentalist. Believing in the mythology(how much or how little) does. If you don't believe in the mythology, then you aren't Christian. You're just someone who thinks some of Jesus's ideas he spoke on were good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarrylf Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 I agree with that first line. Where we disagree is on whether or not it makes you a Christian(which derives from the RELIGION of Christianity) or any other religion. The main tenet that Jesus used as a basis for his teaching is that he was the son of god and that you don't get heaven or blessings without accepting that. Which means you aren't a Christian unless you follow that. Following some teachings alone doesn't make you moderate or fundamentalist. Believing in the mythology(how much or how little) does. If you don't believe in the mythology, then you aren't Christian. You're just someone who thinks some of Jesus's ideas he spoke on were good. Yea overall on the latter half me & you are gonna have to agree to disagree, similarly to how I feel about Bill on the subject, but yea you both are on the same page with that, me not so much. Which Im ok with the opinion of, it only bothers me with Bill when he makes out that anyone with any kind of religious views or spirituality is stupid and he's better than them, I do take offense to him doing that, I love him, and watches his show, even been to his show (it's SOOOO cool seeing it up close), but he loses me there, like I said the same way religious extremist loose me with "you arent as good as us unless you believe what we do". I think we have to live and let live, on all ends, like you said sadly it's alot of the devoted pig-headed Christians that are the loudest and have the mentality that they are better than everyone else and they are the only real option. But we all have to keep in mind, they arent the voice of every single person that calls themselves a Christian. But again thats me, lol thats where I'm at on the whole thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reyna ♔ Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Yea overall on the latter half me & you are gonna have to agree to disagree, similarly to how I feel about Bill on the subject, but yea you both are on the same page with that, me not so much. Which Im ok with the opinion of, it only bothers me with Bill when he makes out that anyone with any kind of religious views or spirituality is stupid and he's better than them, I do take offense to him doing that, I love him, and watches his show, even been to his show (it's SOOOO cool seeing it up close), but he loses me there, like I said the same way religious extremist loose me with "you arent as good as us unless you believe what we do". I think we have to live and let live, on all ends, like you said sadly it's alot of the devoted pig-headed Christians that are the loudest and have the mentality that they are better than everyone else and they are the only real option. But we all have to keep in mind, they arent the voice of every single person that calls themselves a Christian. But again thats me, lol thats where I'm at on the whole thing. I suppose so. However, I really don't feel that Bill tends to come off as feeling anyone who has any spiritual belief is stupid. What he feels is stupid is those who follow the mythology. Some of the teachings he, like I, actually agree with. Like taking care of the sick, championing the poor, etc. I also don't think he intends to paint himself as being better, just more reasonable and open to doubt, question, and reason, really more-so than the fundies. I know the next to last line is true, my point is not understanding why they would still call themselves a Christian, but that must be for me to question I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarrylf Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 I suppose so. However, I really don't feel that Bill tends to come off as feeling anyone who has any spiritual belief is stupid. What he feels is stupid is those who follow the mythology. Some of the teachings he, like I, actually agree with. Like taking care of the sick, championing the poor, etc. I also don't think he intends to paint himself as being better, just more reasonable and open to doubt, question, and reason, really more-so than the fundies. I know the next to last line is true, my point is not understanding why they would still call themselves a Christian, but that must be for me to question I suppose. My twin if I didn't use all my likes I would've given this 1, I guess it is all about perception (as to how he comes off), and more than likely not intentional (it's actually a phrase i go by "your perception of my words is your problem not mine", but like all things in life, it's something I work on but am not perfect at). And yea I've heard him say just that about how he agrees with ideas of Christianity vs. the mythology. Yea I think that question (as to why some would still call themselves Christians who don't live every word of The Bible), I think some like the title and don't want to give it up, tho they don't follow the traditional fundamental teachings they consider what they're doing & living by as more of an example of Christianity than blindly following and believing. But even thats just going off of the people I know like that, Im sure theres other reasons.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reyna ♔ Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 My twin if I didn't use all my likes I would've given this 1, I guess it is all about perception (as to how he comes off), and more than likely not intentional (it's actually a phrase i go by "your perception of my words is your problem not mine", but like all things in life, it's something I work on but am not perfect at). And yea I've heard him say just that about how he agrees with ideas of Christianity vs. the mythology. Yea I think that question (as to why some would still call themselves Christians who don't live every word of The Bible), I think some like the title and don't want to give it up, tho they don't follow the traditional fundamental teachings they consider what they're doing & living by as more of an example of Christianity than blindly following and believing. But even thats just going off of the people I know like that, Im sure theres other reasons.. Right, right. Perception does make alot of difference especially in sensitive topics like this. I can definitely see the bold being true. It's really the only explanation I can see for it as it stands right now. I do wonder what another reason could be. Perhaps a little bias to Jesus' specifically. Or perhaps they like the way he said things as opposed to others. I don't know. But that's really for them to decide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 I am intelligent. I am highly educated. I am gay. I am spiritual. I believe in science. I am a Christian. All of the above fit well to me. I am fully aware of all of the arguments against Christianity. Many of my friends are atheist or Muslim so I know all of the arguments in the book. And I still believe because it makes sense to me. The way I read the bible with understanding of the audience to whom it was written, when it was written and who wrote it supports my faith and beliefs. I choose not to argue with people any more because it's pointless. People will believe what they will and no arguments can change that. The only things that change people's minds are life experiences and their own journeys. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kishi Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 I'm spiritual. And I practice Hinduism. I have read many books on Christianity and Islam. I follow a lot of the morals taught in Buddhism. I'm learning more about Judaism, Santeria, and Sikhism. All of the religions have something beautiful in their scriptures. I take them, apply what works for me to my life, and allow it to better me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSimba Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 I'm a Christian. It was never forced on me, I was allowed to decide for myself. I believe in one God, Jesus's love, and pray regularly. For me prayer is not about "I want," it's very much like a father-son-like relationship between me and God, and it always does wonders for my mind and spirit. Church (although I don't go as often - I pray independently these days) is very much like a good support system, very encouraging and full of love. My belief system works for me but I don't impose it on others. Everyone is entitled to his or her beliefs. No one is right or wrong. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock & Roll Hall of Game Posted December 18, 2012 Author Share Posted December 18, 2012 Interesting... Very interesting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reyna ♔ Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 One of my favorite videos by one of my favorite scientists(and thinkers) Richard Dawkins on morality without religion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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