Black/Ethnic Minorities in Film

[Rock & Roll Hall of Game]

It doesn't matter where they are naturally from, it matters that they are everywhere. That movie could have been set anywhere, that is my point. I never said African lions weren't from Africa. Reading is fundamental.

The lions in The Lion King based off African Lions... Putting African lions in Asia, as they sing African songs and chants with African elephants, giraffes, and other animals only found in Africa, would send the wrong message to children

Learning about lions and animals is fundamental when it comes to filming. Lion King isn't just a great story... It's somewhat educational and exciting to children..

It may be fiction but it's still says "look.. there are some really cool animals out there"

[Escapade]

The lions in The Lion King based off African Lions... Putting African lions in Asia, as they sing African songs and chants with African elephants, giraffes, and other animals only found in Africa, would send the wrong message to children

Learning about lions and animals is fundamental when it comes to filming. Lion King isn't just a great story... It's somewhat educational and exciting to children..

It may be fiction but it's still says "look.. there are some really cool animals out there"

Those animals can be found all over the world. When you say African chants and songs then it makes sense to have the movie in Africa, but if you're just making a movie about animals then it can be set anywhere.

[Rock & Roll Hall of Game]

Those animals can be found all over the world. When you say African chants and songs then it makes sense to have the movie in Africa, but if you're just making a movie about animals then it can be set anywhere.

quit discussing animals... To say "an African Lion" can be found all over the word is wrong

You do realize when I say "African Lion" i don't mean "A lion from Africa"

The Lion King isn't just a movie about animals.. it's a great story told by animals for children.. with strong, powerful messages

http://lionfacts-ce.blogspot.com/2011/08/types-of-lions.html

[Reyna ♔]

I don't see how they would've been damned if they didn't actually . It's not about the location as much as it is that theres no people in it, the location is a minor extension to that. If it were Europe and had

Well that's great for you but that's not every girls story, I lived with 1 who couldn't relate to that. Like yea I admire Disney's writting and ofcourse the animation and they've always done great with hirring actors but on the socially & racially conscious aspect with characters...They're better than they're getting better.

Because people would complain that they weren't being diverse just like people are doing right now. What does it matter if it was animals or not? It's a children's movie that they happened to place in Africa. Not everything is implicitly trying to convey a racist message.

It's the story of many girls everywhere who watch Disney movies. I remember going to Disney World just two years ago and I saw girls of many races enjoying time with all of the princesses. Also, like Roc mentioned, let's not pretend there are no princesses of color in their line-up. Jasmine and Mulan are two of their most popular princesses, and Tiana has become a huge favorite since she came on the scene. Most children don't see race like this. They are taught to see it. Royalty has been everywhere for centuries. Maybe that's my history buff showing, but it isn't as if Disney is pushing a racial agenda that the only royalty has been white.

[Rock & Roll Hall of Game]

SHUT

EM

DAHHHHHHWN

[Reyna ♔]

Adding more diversity would be nice, but let's not pretend that race is their agenda. It's just to entertain people of all ages. Spending a little time with a history book or books of fairytales from other cultures and you'll see variety. It would be nice of Disney to include more of this given their influence, but people shouldn't look at them through the lens as if they are your only source for your image of royalty or even cultural stories in general. Disney isn't intentionally excluding people of other races. They're riding the wave of the most popular fairytales known to their audience. Plain and simple.

[jarrylf]

Why y'all trynna act like Mulan, Pocahontas, Jasmine and Esmerleda ain't happen? Given the roster of all the Disney girls, which now includes Tiana, it is pretty balanced. Of course white chicks outweigh, but it's not surprising they'd be more in number given white people in general dominate western media.

It's not that the number of white chicks outweigh the other races but it's that there just isn't/wasnt that many other races period. And ofcourse I don't discount them, I find it interesting that all the girls you named didn't happen until all in the 90's. Again I maintain they're getting better, alot better than they were like 30+ years ago.

Roc you know you waiting for that Italian princess lol.

Because people would complain that they weren't being diverse just like people are doing right now. What does it matter if it was animals or not? It's a children's movie that they happened to place in Africa. Not everything is implicitly trying to convey a racist message.

It's the story of many girls everywhere who watch Disney movies. I remember going to Disney World just two years ago and I saw girls of many races enjoying time with all of the princesses. Also, like Roc mentioned, let's not pretend there are no princesses of color in their line-up. Jasmine and Mulan are two of their most popular princesses, and Tiana has become a huge favorite since she came on the scene. Most children don't see race like this. They are taught to see it. Royalty has been everywhere for centuries. Maybe that's my history buff showing, but it isn't as if Disney is pushing a racial agenda that the only royalty has been white.

But come on, it's not even a lil side eye worthy for you that in the time the 90's when Disney was becoming more open and diverse with it's characters, they get to Africa, but it happens to be the very 1st Disney movie with NO humans. I acknowlege it could be a coincidence, but it just might not be.

Maybe not an agenda but it's easily comprehendable which is Escapade & my point. Purpose or not it's very easy to be misinformed, and it's just we arent taught about princesses & queens of any other race, so besides Disney, it's the media and the schools, but theres alot of ignoring other cultures. It's not about what kids are taught it's about the influence that they can come up with on their own. The argument Im making is similar to that test they did on lil kids where they put the same illustration of a girl in the same clothes but 5 different shades of color from blonde & white to black & brown, and when asked who's the bad girl in the picture, they all picked the dark girl, they weren't taught that, they were just answering the question honestly. That's the influence on kids, not all kids but it's a shocking revelation. For the millionth time, it's getting better, ALOT better compared to 30 yrs ago but it could be better. I understand what you're saying and agree to a large extent that the story, messages & characters matter more than the races, but I think race does matter with them.

[Reyna ♔]

But come on, it's not even a lil side eye worthy for you that in the time the 90's when Disney was becoming more open and diverse with it's characters, they get to Africa, but it happens to be the very 1st Disney movie with NO humans. I acknowlege it could be a coincidence, but it just might not be.

Maybe not an agenda but it's easily comprehendable which is Escapade & my point. Purpose or not it's very easy to be misinformed, and it's just we arent taught about princesses & queens of any other race, so besides Disney, it's the media and the schools, but theres alot of ignoring other cultures. It's not about what kids are taught it's about the influence that they can come up with on their own. The argument Im making is similar to that test they did on lil kids where they put the same illustration of a girl in the same clothes but 5 different shades of color from blonde & white to black & brown, and when asked who's the bad girl in the picture, they all picked the dark girl, they weren't taught that, they were just answering the question honestly. That's the influence on kids, not all kids but it's a shocking revelation. For the millionth time, it's getting better, ALOT better compared to 30 yrs ago but it could be better. I understand what you're saying and agree to a large extent that the story, messages & characters matter more than the races, but I think race does matter with them.

I can understand why some would side-eye it, but considering how much effort that would take it becomes very far-fetched to take seriously for more than a few minutes. TLK isn't even the first Disney movie with no humans, or scarcely had humans. Remember Robin Hood?

You both are reaching a little far with this. Again, the origins of most of their stories are European. Why would they go out of their way to make them all racially diverse even though it would be cool to see? The European fairytales are the most popular so why not stick to their origins? They were taught that by the media and their environment. Disney isn't actively or even inactively trying to convey that message. They wouldn't have even bothered to do what they've done thus far if that was the case. Stories like Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty are some of the most popular stories ever told. All Disney was trying to do was bring it to life in animation. They shouldn't be painted as trying to push that the only royalty of culture has been white. They're pandering to their audience-children and people who know those stories. There's really no reason to assume that race matters to them as much as some of you are saying. All most kids see are pretty princesses having adventures. Disney is caught up in this argument because of the rest of media that surrounds them forcing that image of white being perfection. Not their own intentions. That's wrong.

[Reyna ♔]

Don't get me wrong, Andy and I both mentioned in this thread that we're waiting for our multiracial princess. I just don't think that Disney is intentionally excluding one or has ever intentionally excluded a princess of any race or culture. I have no reason to come to that conclusion. There's good reason to also wonder which fairytale they could use and how they could bring it to life. That's a lot to figure out.

[jarrylf]

I can understand why some would side-eye it, but considering how much effort that would take it becomes very far-fetched to take seriously for more than a few minutes. TLK isn't even the first Disney movie with no humans, or scarcely had humans. Remember Robin Hood?

You both are reaching a little far with this. Again, the origins of most of their stories are European. Why would they go out of their way to make them all racially diverse even though it would be cool to see? The European fairytales are the most popular so why not stick to their origins? They were taught that by the media and their environment. Disney isn't actively or even inactively trying to convey that message. They wouldn't have even bothered to do what they've done thus far if that was the case. Stories like Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty are some of the most popular stories ever told. All Disney was trying to do was bring it to life in animation. They shouldn't be painted as trying to push that the only royalty of culture has been white. They're pandering to their audience. Children and people who know those stories. There's really no reason to assume that race matters to them as much as some of you are saying. All most kids see are pretty princesses having adventures. Disney is caught up in this argument because of the rest of media that surrounds them forcing that image of white being perfection. Not their own intentions. That's wrong.

At the very least Im glad you see where Im coming from with that side eye from TLK, LOVE that movie, 1st movie I ever saw in theaters and rember that experience very well (saw it 4 times in Theaters). And AH I forgot all about Robin Hood, see I was giving TLK points meant for RH lol.

I'm not even saying ignore those characters or change them, Im saying you can make entire movies & stories with other races as well. Of the known white Princesses I can't think of 1 that could've been black, my thing is there are black princesses that could've gotten the Disney Pocahontas treatment. It's that they don't make room, but like I said that's beyond Disney as well. I would LOVE LOVE LOVVVVVVVVE if Disney did a movie about Nefertiti, that'd be sooo cool, hell I want them to do something involving Ancient Egypt in general (that obsession kinda never really left), theres SO many amazing stories there that go virtually ignored to the modern world. Intentional or not, it's a thing they do. It's like if I hurt someone un intentionally, it doesn't change the fact that I hurt them. And you can't act like the complaints about diersity and acusations of Disney are surprising at the end of the day, Walt's views are rumored to be that. I mean he was a genius but also a product of his time, is it really hard to think that people in charge after Walt's passing didn't have the same views and once they started retirring and dyeing out in the 80's-90's and got new blood in the system that's when all the changes and cultral acknowledgements came into play? I mean it's known again the media racism went beyond Disney, so I do think this argument is worth having, but it's a different world NOW which is at the end of the day the most important thing, I think we can all agree on, but I just don't like when people think the accusation of racism by Disney at any point in time is either false or a reach.

[jarrylf]

Don't get me wrong, Andy and I both mentioned in this thread that we're waiting for our multiracial princess. I just don't think that Disney is intentionally excluding one or has ever intentionally excluded a princess of any race or culture. I have no reason to come to that conclusion. There's good reason to also wonder which fairytale they could use and how they could bring it to life. That's a lot to figure out.

It is alot to figure out, and I want a multiratial princess too. I want all races & cultures explored and shown, that's just how I am. Like I said in the above post I don't think they're intentionally excluding NOW but I do think back in the older days the more than likely were, but so was just about everyone else back then.

[Reyna ♔]

At the very least Im glad you see where Im coming from with that side eye from TLK, LOVE that movie, 1st movie I ever saw in theaters and rember that experience very well (saw it 4 times in Theaters). And AH I forgot all about Robin Hood, see I was giving TLK points meant for RH lol.

I'm not even saying ignore those characters or change them, Im saying you can make entire movies & stories with other races as well. Of the known white Princesses I can't think of 1 that could've been black, my thing is there are black princesses that could've gotten the Disney Pocahontas treatment. It's that they don't make room, but like I said that's beyond Disney as well. I would LOVE LOVE LOVVVVVVVVE if Disney did a movie about Nefertiti, that'd be sooo cool, hell I want them to do something involving Ancient Egypt in general (that obsession kinda never really left), theres SO many amazing stories there that go virtually ignored to the modern world. Intentional or not, it's a thing they do. It's like if I hurt someone un intentionally, it doesn't change the fact that I hurt them. And you can't act like the complaints about diersity and acusations of Disney are surprising at the end of the day, Walt's views are rumored to be that. I mean he was a genius but also a product of his time, is it really hard to think that people in charge after Walt's passing didn't have the same views and once they started retirring and dyeing out in the 80's-90's and got new blood in the system that's when all the changes and cultral acknowledgements came into play? I mean it's known again the media racism went beyond Disney, so I do think this argument is worth having, but it's a different world NOW which is at the end of the day the most important thing, I think we can all agree on, but I just don't like when people think the accusation of racism by Disney at any point in time is either false or a reach.

I know there are many princesses of color throughout history because royalty was a dominant feature of humanity for millennia. It isn't that Disney excluded them or didn't make room for them, it's that they went with stories that are the most famous to their audience. Why not capitalize on that? It doesn't mean there is anything more to what you're doing than that. I think that would be cool, too, but you have to establish a brand somehow and somewhere. Why not go with the stories that everyone knows first before venturing off? That's basically what they've been doing recently since their brand is well-established as THE fairytale animators. Their only real competition was Pixar, but they've absorbed them. The difference is that they haven't done anything for people to be hurt by. They haven't treated other races as inferior or not up to their standard. If you hurt someone unintentionally it was possible that something you were doing would be very likely to hurt someone whether you intended to or not. The backlash is, to me, while not totally invented is quite fabricated. I'm sure when people started complaining it took quite a bit of scrambling to find a story to use for say The Princess and the Frog. Even then they ended up turning a European story into not only an American one, but a black American one. That couldn't have been easy. I'm not saying that some of the originals didn't have their biases, but it didn't reflect in their work to me. It never felt like they were trying in anyway to exclude other races.

[Reyna ♔]

It is alot to figure out, and I want a multiratial princess too. I want all races & cultures explored and shown, that's just how I am. Like I said in the above post I don't think they're intentionally excluding NOW but I do think back in the older days the more than likely were, but so was just about everyone else back then.

How do you figure that? The main stories they went to were very popular or European in origin anyway. Like I said, it just seemed like they were establishing a brand to me. I'm not saying Disney is a pillar for diversity, but they're not an antithesis of it either.

[jarrylf]

I know there are many princesses of color throughout history because royalty was a dominant feature of humanity for millennia. It isn't that Disney excluded them or didn't make room for them, it's that they went with stories that are the most famous to their audience. Why not capitalize on that? It doesn't mean there is anything more to what you're doing than that. I think that would be cool, too, but you have to establish a brand somehow and somewhere. Why not go with the stories that everyone knows first before venturing off? That's basically what they've been doing recently since their brand is well-established as THE fairytale animators. Their only real competition was Pixar, but they've absorbed them. The difference is that they haven't done anything for people to be hurt by. They haven't treated other races as inferior or not up to their standard. If you hurt someone unintentionally it was possible that something you were doing would be very likely to hurt someone whether you intended to or not. The backlash is, to me, while not totally invented is quite fabricated. I'm sure when people started complaining it took quite a bit of scrambling to find a story to use for say The Princess and the Frog. Even then they ended up turning a European story into not only an American one, but a black American one. That couldn't have been easy. I'm not saying that some of the originals didn't have their biases, but it didn't reflect in their work to me. It never felt like they were trying in anyway to exclude other races.

OK I hear you, I didn't think about it that way that it is/was more about the fairytales than the true stories, it is, I never thought about it like that. So I see what you're saying. So I get what you mean now. Cause yea if they did Nefertiti MOST men women & children wouldn't know what the hell that name is or comes from, and more than likely the vast majority wouldn't tune in unless the animation is TOP of the line and had a great campaign. But it's easier to sell the fairytales we already know & grew up on.

How do you figure that? The main stories they went to were very popular or European in origin anyway. Like I said, it just seemed like they were establishing a brand to me. I'm not saying Disney is a pillar for diversity, but they're not an antithesis of it either.

Well the odds of them doing the Princess & The Frog with a Black princess in 1952 seems very unlikely. Like even if they weren't racist, they had to cater to the majority of that time that were white. It's that they went SOOOO long with all 1 race for their animation movies, then in the 90's BOOOM "We acknowlege others", thats a lil telling to me, that it had to be new blood running in the veins. That's just my perspective, like if they started in the 60's I think it'd be harder to complain about it. Probably would still be some because not enough races or the illustration of a race, but you never know.

[bu.]

OK moving forward from Disney. What do you all think of this?

=========================================

Co-Screenwriter of 'Noah' Explains Why There Are No Black People Or POC In The Film

O.K. let’s see if this makes sense.

No doubt, one of the most talked about films so far this year is Darren Aronofsky’s Noah. The film has gotten its share of rave reviews, though there are those who have major problems with it. However, one cannot deny that it is truly an ambitious, unique and original film - the kind of risk-taking movie you wish Hollywood would make more of, like they used to.

However, there is that one thing; That one thing that stuck out in my mind when I saw the film: “Hey, where are the black folks or people of color in the film?”

If this film had been made back during the epic "Biblical film" era, in the 1950s, well then, yes, you would expect that.

But even Cecil B. DeMille’s The Ten Commandments has black people in it. So, here we are well into the 21stcentury, and Noah is populated with nothing but white people, many who speak with British or Australian accents.

Well, in a new interview on the website The High Calling (HERE) the co-screenwriter of the film Ari Handel, who wrote Noah with Aronofsky, was asked about the lack of diversity and addressed by saying:

“From the beginning, we were concerned about casting, the issue of race. What we realized is that this story is functioning at the level of myth, and as a mythical story, the race of the individuals doesn’t matter. They’re supposed to be stand-ins for all people. Either you end up with a Bennetton ad or the crew of the Starship Enterprise.”

He goes on to say:

“You either try to put everything in there, which just calls attention to it, or you just say, “Let’s make that not a factor, because we’re trying to deal with everyman.” Looking at this story through that kind of lens is the same as saying, “Would the ark float and is it big enough to get all the species in there?” That’s irrelevant to the questions because the questions are operating on a different plane than that; they’re operating on the mythical plane.”

Really? That’s the best he could do? Why not just say, we just didn’t want to be bothered? I would have bought that.

So let me see if I understand this. In other words, if we put black people or POC in the film, then people would notice it, and that would have been like really, really distracting, taking people out of the film. So instead, we got a whole bunch of white British, American and Australian actors to represent all mankind, because it‘s just a lot easier?

And, furthermore, putting people of color in the film would have somewhat diminished the biblical Noah, making it look, God forbid, like some kind of Star Trek movie?

Sorry I’m all confused here. I was thinking that, if you want to represent all mankind in a film, then wouldn't it make sense to have a cast that did actually represent all of mankind, in every color and hue, instead of having an all white cast, and telling audiences to just squint their eyes, and pretend that he’s another race, because it's all just a myth after all? So black people can't be mythical too? Nope, I guess we're too real, too urban.

Am I wrong here, or is Handel? You tell us.

=======================================

Your thoughts?

[Aquaria]

This is why we have Tyler Perry

[bu.]

This is why we have Tyler Perry

.

Imagine Tyler doing Noah. "Madea Goes To Sea".

[Reyna ♔]

This would be a case of not sticking to the origins of a story even a fictional one. I'm sure they could have found plenty of Jews and Arabs to fill those roles. I will say I did enjoy the movie the way they portrayed it on a larger scale, but I did roll my eyes at much of the casting. I love me some Emma Watson, though.

[bu.]

This would be a case of not sticking to the origins of a story even a fictional one. I'm sure they could have found plenty of Jews and Arabs to fill those roles. I will I did enjoy the movie the way they portrayed it on a larger scale, but I did roll my eyes at much of the casting. I love me some Emma Watson, though.

I haven't seen it yet but really want to. I love that Emma and Logan were reunited

[Aquaria]

.

Imagine Tyler doing Noah. "Madea Goes To Sea".

I can honestly see both sides. Yes, it's fucked up they actually sat down and said we're gonna cast all white actors. However, let's say you make Noah black, or Asian, his family would be the same race. Then you have people of similar ethnicity around, we'd have to assume Noah's family are not transplants in a foreign land. All of a sudden, it's a ________ movie. Not saying it's a bad thing, but I think that's what tends to happen, even in Tyler Perry's movies and most "black" movies. And if you throw in the white friend they're all of a sudden a token. And if you make a movie where every character is a different race, it is a Benetton ad, it's not realistic. It's token race characters.

I don't think there's any right answer, I see both sides. In this case, I do think it's messed up to say what the writer said, but I see what he's saying.

[bu.]

I can honestly see both sides. Yes, it's fucked up they actually sat down and said we're gonna cast all white actors. However, let's say you make Noah black, or Asian, his family would be the same race. Then you have people of similar ethnicity around, we'd have to assume Noah's family are not transplants in a foreign land. All of a sudden, it's a ________ movie. Not saying it's a bad thing, but I think that's what tends to happen, even in Tyler Perry's movies and most "black" movies. And if you throw in the white friend they're all of a sudden a token. And if you make a movie where every character is a different race, it is a Benetton ad, it's not realistic. It's token race characters.

I don't think there's any right answer, I see both sides. In this case, I do think it's messed up to say what the writer said, but I see what he's saying.

Tbh I once read that it was possible that Noah could have been albino anyway since the people of that time were described as 'dark-skinned' which typically Middle-Eastern folks were and Noah is described as pure white with eyes like the ray of sun (red?). Also I read that Ham, Noah's son, may have been black and sadly because the Bible said he was cursed (or maybe it was Canaan) that's how slavery was justified. That's if you believe those people existed (in before Game does too much)

[Reyna ♔]

OK I hear you, I didn't think about it that way that it is/was more about the fairytales than the true stories, it is, I never thought about it like that. So I see what you're saying. So I get what you mean now. Cause yea if they did Nefertiti MOST men women & children wouldn't know what the hell that name is or comes from, and more than likely the vast majority wouldn't tune in unless the animation is TOP of the line and had a great campaign. But it's easier to sell the fairytales we already know & grew up on.

Well the odds of them doing the Princess & The Frog with a Black princess in 1952 seems very unlikely. Like even if they weren't racist, they had to cater to the majority of that time that were white. It's that they went SOOOO long with all 1 race for their animation movies, then in the 90's BOOOM "We acknowlege others", thats a lil telling to me, that it had to be new blood running in the veins. That's just my perspective, like if they started in the 60's I think it'd be harder to complain about it. Probably would still be some because not enough races or the illustration of a race, but you never know.

Right. I mean there was a major need to cater to their audience so even if they wanted to do a story from Africa or anywhere else it would take, as you said, nearly perfect animation and a huge campaign for it. Even then, people would probably have been turned off to it. You could very well be right that the new blood came in and helped make the company shift, but I think their ability to do that had a lot to do with the old heads building that foundation for the company as well as the way the times changed.

Yeah it would have. You'd have people who only vaguely remember that story as originally told going off on the company for making a white princess black. That's just the hand they had to play. Well Disney has been around for generations, and doing it in the 60s have been very controversial. I will say this, they have included a few black and other races into their animation little by little since at least the 40s. It was just a matter of time, and maybe like you said, new blood to have some leads.

[Reyna ♔]

I haven't seen it yet but really want to. I love that Emma and Logan were reunited

If you take the "Noah" story seriously then you'll probably hate it. If you don't then you'll probably love it. Idk where you fall on the spectrum, but that's most of the feedback I hear Yes!

[Aquaria]

Tbh I once read that it was possible that Noah could have been albino anyway since the people of that time were described as 'dark-skinned' which typically Middle-Eastern folks were and Noah is described as pure white with eyes like the ray of sun (red?). Also I read that Ham, Noah's son, may have been black and sadly because the Bible said he was cursed (or maybe it was Canaan) that's how slavery was justified. That's if you believe those people existed (in before Game does too much)

The bible is not real

You're thinking of Cain and Abel, the "mark of Cain" was used to justify slavery

[bu.]

If you take the "Noah" story seriously then you'll probably hate it. If you don't then you'll probably love it. Idk where you fall on the spectrum, but that's most of the feedback I hear Yes!

I've always believed these 'biblical adaptations' are never 100% accurate anyway so I doubt I'll be mad haha. I just want to watch it because it looks like a great movie so I'll probably enjoy it, hopefully lol