Hi, I'm Skeptical...

[jarrylf]

If Janet was an album kind of Artist, with no visuals, I would accept that. Janet is not just an album typer of artist. As a matter of fact, there were many songs I disliked by Janet whrn I first heard them, until I saw the video, or a performance. 

For me personally though, she's been a albums artist too because frankly she couldn't be my #1 artist and have that be the case for most of her discog, her videos have helped with certain songs, but it's really not many, I use her tracks more than I use her videos, and some of her songs that mean the most to me she's never verbally even acknowleged (Better Days being the biggest & best example). Her music and voice more often than not just does it for me, the videos give it that extra push, and actually even helped me get into her, but the music is what keeps me. I know that's everyone, and I respect that that's how you feel and many do, but she's always been both a visual and album artist in my eyes, I knew years ago that if she ever released a album and did NOTHING for it (not 1 video not 1 performance) she has what it takes to get away with it just like Prince & her Brother, and low key actually could have then seen her doing that in time.

[JoeJoe]

If Janet was an album kind of Artist, with no visuals, I would accept that. Janet is not just an album typer of artist. As a matter of fact, there were many songs I disliked by Janet whrn I first heard them, until I saw the video, or a performance. 

She has always been both an album and visual artists. Anybody saying otherwise obviously doesn't know much about Janet or is making up excuses for this lackluster era. Even down to the Discipline era she was a visual artist so I don't wanna hear any shit about her being more of this or that. She's always been both

[jarrylf]

it's clear that she didn't know what was allowed.. Oh geez.. We sound like broken records..

and your argument that she's not a "1-up" artist sounds like it could make sense, until u think about the fact that when has she ever (up until that point) performed with another male artist and allowed them to rip anything off of her body?? I can't think of any other performance where she had another artist rip something off of her.. Does that mean that she wasn't meaning for Justin to rip anything off of her on the SB then?? Just cuz she hadn't done it up until that point doesn't mean that she could've never conceived of doing so for the first time on the SB.. She obviously did...and it backfired..

janet eff-ed up big time.. It was all her own doing (and partially Justin as well)... If you still can't explain what was supposed to happen then there were no other alternatives.. Her titty was always meant to pop out.. End of story..

Why tf would she allow a man to rip off ANY part of her clothes on national live television with millions of families and children watching?? Where was the good idea at?! Even if she didn't expose her breast, allowing a man to rip anything off her chest should've never been even considered for the SB.. She would've been blacklisted regardless..

To me it's more clear that she does, thus it's what she dealt with it all her life, and played to it all her life. Again, history of this kind of behavior I could see that excuse.

That's not a good example at all because she has been performing on network TV since 1974, and has NEVER tried to bend the rules with cussing or nuditity, she has RARELY (can't exagerate that enough) performed with another male artist on network TV, that can be argued that it was new for her, but performing on the same shows or talked about performances with artists like Madonna, Prince, Paula, & her brother, she's had since 1987 to become the "they did this, so I gotta do that" girl. ESPECIALLY with Madonna, who's done attention getting performances since the Like A Virgin VMA's. I mean it's possible Janet just said "hey, I want to get more attention than Madonna for some reason so get over here Justin", but that's not at all who Janet has made herself out to be in her career.

The problem isn't that I can't explain, it's that you and anyone who wasn't apart of putting the performance together can, you really can't, 

And that's kind of why I don't see it either, it's kind of insulting to her own intelligence, I mean people make dumb decisions no matter how smart or dumb they are, but the backlash (which she's NEVER had over nudity) had to be anticipated and it's nothing she's had to deal with so majorly and she wouldn't want to be.interested in that because she's never been about having to defend herself or antics, that was usually Prince & Madonna.

[Dal]

Bc they have nothing else to say #oop

oh.. And you're a sheep 

just because u try and minimize the impact that the meaning of the word "sheep" has by repeating it and jokingly calling other members a sheep doesn't take away the fact that you are the true definition of what being a "sheep" means..

you've stated that you don't care if Janet lies to her fans, and that is nuts! 

you most likely have never even said one negative thing about Janet or any choices she's ever made, because you are a blind follower, someone who can't ever look at the facts and evidence and make up your own mind...... in other words, a sheep!

you're probably still waiting on that lingerie line, huh? 

[TheeKnowledge]

If they ever have a kid it's definitely a boy, Wissam needs a son to leave his business and wealth to. I think he talked her into having kids for this reason.

[Dal]

To me it's more clear that she does, thus it's what she dealt with it all her life, and played to it all her life. Again, history of this kind of behavior I could see that excuse.
That's not a good example at all because she has been performing on network TV since 1974, and has NEVER tried to bend the rules with cussing or nuditity, she has RARELY (can't exagerate that enough) performed with another male artist on network TV, that can be argued that it was new for her, but performing on the same shows or talked about performances with artists like Madonna, Prince, Paula, & her brother, she's had since 1987 to become the "they did this, so I gotta do that" girl. ESPECIALLY with Madonna, who's done attention getting performances since the Like A Virgin VMA's. I mean it's possible Janet just said "hey, I want to get more attention than Madonna for some reason so get over here Justin", but that's not at all who Janet has made herself out to be in her career.

The problem isn't that I can't explain, it's that you and anyone who wasn't apart of putting the performance together can, you really can't, 

And that's kind of why I don't see it either, it's kind of insulting to her own intelligence, I mean people make dumb decisions no matter how smart or dumb they are, but the backlash (which she's NEVER had over nudity) had to be anticipated and it's nothing she's had to deal with so majorly and she wouldn't want to be.interested in that because she's never been about having to defend herself or antics, that was usually Prince & Madonna.

thanks Jarry for your well-thought out response..

i see your point...

but I don't agree with it..

in fact I think you're helping me prove my point.. The fact that she has never done any kind of "stunt" on live TV before doesn't mean that she would never have done a stunt like that.. The reality is that she did pull a stunt on the SB.. Again, like I said, even if the true intentions were for her to NOT show her breast, just the image of her allowing a man to rip anything off of her body in the breast area would be considered a "stunt"... Therefore, at that moment in time, she was DAMN SURE the type of artist to pull a stunt like that (just like Madonna, Prince, etc)...

i believe one of the major reasons why she received as much backlash as she did, was the fact that people never imagined she could've been the type of artist to pull a stunt like that.. She was always known as the sane Jackson family member..

again, consider the timeframe when the SB happened.. It was months after the Madonna/Britney kiss and the fact that the SB was produced by MTV adds credence to the idea that she was looking to go even wilder than Madonna.. Hell, MTV (and Gil!) even advertised online that fans were in for a "shock" days before the SB took place.. What was going to be shocking?? A bra..?

nope! Her tit!

Add onto that the fact that she wore her biggest nipple shield, the lyrics stated Justin was going to have her "naked by the end of this song", there was no other red/black bra underneath, she stood frozen as he ripped off her breast cup (cuz it was planned).. It all adds up to a stunt..

because it was..

[JoeJoe]

If they ever have a kid it's definitely a boy, Wissam needs a son to leave his business and wealth to. I think he talked her into having kids for this reason.

of course he did. There's no way in hell Janet would've waited this damn late to have kids. She's been married to Wissam for what? 4yrs? She was married to Rene for 7 so if she wanted to have kids with someone she was married with she would've done it at a younger age. Y'all really think Janet was like "Shit i'm gon wait til i'm almost 50 to have a kid". Hell naw! Wissam ain't playing games. He wants an heir to his kingdom and i'm sure he didn't want kids from a bitch who don't have her own coins that way she wouldn't be a gold digger.

[Dal]

of course he did. There's no way in hell Janet would've waited this damn late to have kids. She's been married to Wissam for what? 4yrs? She was married to Rene for 7 so if she wanted to have kids with someone she was married with she would've done it at a younger age. Y'all really think Janet was like "Shit i'm gon wait til i'm almost 50 to have a kid". Hell naw! Wissam ain't playing games. He wants an heir to his kingdom and i'm sure he didn't want kids from a bitch who don't have her own coins that way she wouldn't be a gold digger.

??????????????????

[Dal]

@msboz where u been bro?! Lmao! 

[BlackCat77]

I'm basing this on the Madonna equivalent of this board. I think the comments section of anything is generally just a shitshow of unhinged people. Like ATRL. 

Madonna Nation? People on there are ridiculous/disgusting when it comes to Janet... But it's true I don't think Janet's mentioned there as much as Madonna is mentioned on here. But whatever it's all good

but yeah that ATRL site is catastrophic 

[jarrylf]

thanks Jarry for your well-thought out response..

i see your point...

but I don't agree with it..

in fact I think you're helping me prove my point.. The fact that she has never done any kind of "stunt" on live TV before doesn't mean that she would never have done a stunt like that.. The reality is that she did pull a stunt on the SB.. Again, like I said, even if the true intentions were for her to NOT show her breast, just the image of her allowing a man to rip anything off of her body in the breast area would be considered a "stunt"... Therefore, at that moment in time, she was DAMN SURE the type of artist to pull a stunt like that (just like Madonna, Prince, etc)...

i believe one of the major reasons why she received as much backlash as she did, was the fact that people never imagined she could've been the type of artist to pull a stunt like that.. She was always known as the sane Jackson family member..

again, consider the timeframe when the SB happened.. It was months after the Madonna/Britney kiss and the fact that the SB was produced by MTV adds credence to the idea that she was looking to go even wilder than Madonna.. Hell, MTV (and Gil!) even advertised online that fans were in for a "shock" days before the SB took place.. What was going to be shocking?? A bra..?

nope! Her tit!

Add onto that the fact that she wore her biggest nipple shield, the lyrics stated Justin was going to have her "naked by the end of this song", there was no other red/black bra underneath, she stood frozen as he ripped off her breast cup (cuz it was planned).. It all adds up to a stunt..

because it was..

And that's the overall point, it's not "obvious" 1 way or another, it's a opinion that's always going to divide people and the fans, there's no right or wrong except the 1s who think they're right and the others are wrong, it's all a conspiracy theory on both sides, and having your opinion is 1 thing but not respecting others on this subject that's another.

And see, I still disagree, she knew she was seen as the normal 1, she knew that she or her label or the network could get fined and face at least some of the backlash she did when 

OR the fact that she was performing with Justin OR whatever the actual plans were, it's stupid to think they thought they could advertise that and get away with it LOFL Come on now, again it doesn't add up, there was too much at risk.

AND she's said she always wears/wore nipple ewlery when she performs, but if you think she's lying about everything that's not worth much I guess. But still you don't know what was underneath until the cup, again, black on the inside doesn't mean "nothing". AND that ending you said would be enough to consider that, if not for the way she obviously visibly reacted to it happening. Nobody ever said he wasn't supposed to rip, but what was shown might not've meant to be seen, thus her reaction of shock, if she stood there and left like calm and cool, there would be more certainty from those of us who don't have our minds made up. It's all opinion.

Edited April 12, 2016 by jarrylf

[Dal]

And that's the overall point, it's not "obvious" 1 way or another, it's a opinion that's always going to divide people and the fans, there's no right or wrong except the 1s who think they're right and the others are wrong, it's all a conspiracy theory on both sides, and having your opinion is 1 thing but not respecting others on this subject that's another.
And see, I still disagree, she knew she was seen as the normal 1, she knew that she or her label or the network could get fined and face at least some of the backlash she did when 

OR the fact that she was performing with Justin OR whatever the actual plans were, it's stupid to think they thought they could advertise that and get away with it LOFL Come on now, again it doesn't add up, there was too much at risk.

AND she's said she always wears/wore nipple ewlery when she performs, but if you think she's lying about everything that's not worth much I guess. But still you don't know what was underneath until the cup, again, black on the inside doesn't mean "nothing". AND that ending you said would be enough to consider that, if not for the way she obviously visibly reacted to it happening. Nobody ever said he wasn't supposed to rip, but what was shown might not've meant to be seen, thus her reaction of shock, if she stood there and left like calm and cool, there would be more certainty from those of us who don't have our minds made up. It's all opinion.

whatever dude.. I'm sorry you're unable to see things for what they really.. There is very little room for opinion in this matter.. The facts and evidence are there.. I just hope you never have to do jury duty.. You probably think OJ is innocent too, right..? 

Thanks for the debate..

[Aquaria]

thanks Jarry for your well-thought out response..

i see your point...

but I don't agree with it..

in fact I think you're helping me prove my point.. The fact that she has never done any kind of "stunt" on live TV before doesn't mean that she would never have done a stunt like that.. The reality is that she did pull a stunt on the SB.. Again, like I said, even if the true intentions were for her to NOT show her breast, just the image of her allowing a man to rip anything off of her body in the breast area would be considered a "stunt"... Therefore, at that moment in time, she was DAMN SURE the type of artist to pull a stunt like that (just like Madonna, Prince, etc)...

i believe one of the major reasons why she received as much backlash as she did, was the fact that people never imagined she could've been the type of artist to pull a stunt like that.. She was always known as the sane Jackson family member..

again, consider the timeframe when the SB happened.. It was months after the Madonna/Britney kiss and the fact that the SB was produced by MTV adds credence to the idea that she was looking to go even wilder than Madonna.. Hell, MTV (and Gil!) even advertised online that fans were in for a "shock" days before the SB took place.. What was going to be shocking?? A bra..?

nope! Her tit!

Add onto that the fact that she wore her biggest nipple shield, the lyrics stated Justin was going to have her "naked by the end of this song", there was no other red/black bra underneath, she stood frozen as he ripped off her breast cup (cuz it was planned).. It all adds up to a stunt..

because it was..

Ouch!!

Caution: This Tea is hot.  

[TheeKnowledge]

of course he did. There's no way in hell Janet would've waited this damn late to have kids. She's been married to Wissam for what? 4yrs? She was married to Rene for 7 so if she wanted to have kids with someone she was married with she would've done it at a younger age. Y'all really think Janet was like "Shit i'm gon wait til i'm almost 50 to have a kid". Hell naw! Wissam ain't playing games. He wants an heir to his kingdom and i'm sure he didn't want kids from a bitch who don't have her own coins that way she wouldn't be a gold digger.

This. I always looked up to Janet as a woman who is childless by choice. After she hit 40 I hadn't thought she would ever change her mind. I doubt she honestly wants an offspring.

[jarrylf]

whatever dude.. I'm sorry you're unable to see things for what they really.. There is very little room for opinion in this matter.. The facts and evidence are there.. I just hope you never have to do jury duty.. You probably think OJ is innocent too, right..? 

Thanks for the debate..

And I'm sorry you're so easily cynical, and that you take your opinion as fact on a matter that's not cut & dry, and likewise on the Jury duty, But here's why I'd probably be better fit for Jury duty than you would, I don't jump to conclusions based on little evidence, you take all evidence in every antic and answer into consideration before coming up with a conclusion. That's the logic that says OJ did it, not "he beat his wife, she's dead, he did it", there's mountains of evidence, there isn't for the argument that this was planned. So yes, whatever indeed.

No problem.

Ouch!!

Caution: This Tea is hot.  

Chille yo mouf must be sensitive cause this tea is rather cold and stale.

[Dal]

And I'm sorry you're so easily cynical, and that you take your opinion as fact on a matter that's not cut & dry, and likewise on the Jury duty, But here's why I'd probably be better fit for Jury duty than you would, I don't jump to conclusions based on little evidence, you take all evidence in every antic and answer into consideration before coming up with a conclusion. That's the logic that says OJ did it, not "he beat his wife, she's dead, he did it", there's mountains of evidence, there isn't for the argument that this was planned. So yes, whatever indeed.

where is the evidence to suggest that it wasn't planned tho..??

You are literally making up theories by saying "well maaaaybe there was another black bra underneath"... Wtf?! 

All logical signs point to the fact that it was pre-orchestrated stunt that backfired.. Sorry bruh

[jarrylf]

where is the evidence to suggest that it wasn't planned tho..??

You are literally making up theories by saying "well maaaaybe there was another black bra underneath"... Wtf?! 

All logical signs point to the fact that it was pre-orchestrated stunt that backfired.. Sorry bruh

Her entire history and the conversations of everyone involved that have surfaced years later. Doesn't have to matter to you, but I put more weight on those than 12yr old pictures. But again, it's not enough evidence on either side for anyone not directly involved or had every bit of evidence and testimony available to make a beyond reasonable doubt opinion.

Ummm that aukward moment where I didn't say there was another black bra underneath, I said dealing with costumes all the time you get a cup or bra that's 1 color on the outside and another on the inside basically, if you thought I was saying 3 bras....

They do to you, not everyone else, sorry you have a hard time dealing with or accepting or respecting that bruh. I'm good.

[Dal]

Her entire history and the conversations of everyone involved that have surfaced years later. Doesn't have to matter to you, but I put more weight on those than 12yr old pictures. But again, it's not enough evidence on either side for anyone not directly involved or had every bit of evidence and testimony available to make a beyond reasonable doubt opinion.
Ummm that aukward moment where I didn't say there was another black bra underneath, I said dealing with costumes all the time you get a cup or bra that's 1 color on the outside and another on the inside basically, if you thought I was saying 3 bras....

They do to you, not everyone else, sorry you have a hard time dealing with or accepting or respecting that bruh. I'm good.

If this were like a court case, her history would not be allowed because history had nothing to do with the actual event that happened (titty popping out).. And conversations wouldn't be allowed either because it would be classified as hear-say.. So your "evidence" isn't even true evidence..

her actual statement was that there was meant to be a red bra left behind (utter BS).. That's the sort of evidence u say u believe, the statements that were given afterwards..

Jarry, I like the debate, really I do.. But I think it's pretty telling when you (and maybe Norm) are the only one actually saying it was truly an accident.. Even her own fans know that it had to have been planned, and we still accept her and look up to her.

my whole point in bringing up the SB in the first place was to prove that Janet has lied to her fans/public before.. No denying that.. Bye!

[jarrylf]

If this were like a court case, her history would not be allowed because history had nothing to do with the actual event that happened (titty popping out).. And conversations wouldn't be allowed either because it would be classified as hear-say.. So your "evidence" isn't even true evidence..

her actual statement was that there was meant to be a red bra left behind (utter BS).. That's the sort of evidence u say u believe, the statements that were given afterwards..

Jarry, I like the debate, really I do.. But I think it's pretty telling when you (and maybe Norm) are the only one actually saying it was truly an accident.. Even her own fans know that it had to have been planned, and we still accept her and look up to her.

my whole point in bringing up the SB in the first place was to prove that Janet has lied to her fans/public before.. No denying that.. Bye!

WRONG, actually it would and be looked it with a magnifying glass, like a husband who murders his wife, they're going to look into their history of abuse that all happened before the death itself, that's exactly what would happen. And ofcourse you're wrong that they wouldn't want testimony from those directly involved with the planning. That's....just how court for a major incident goes...

Yea,....again that happens with court....they call it testimony I believe...

That's this debate, many aren't engaging because it's old and tirring, you're new here you can't base THIS argument right now off of that, we've had this debate MANY pages and many people on both sides for YEARS. Hell I was avoiding it until the picture of the cup because having a understanding of costumes that most here don't, I can shed light that that's not a be all end all picture, no picture has been and probably never will be. AND what this debate has been about on my end is respecting everyones rights to a opinion about something they don't know all the facts about, not even that I'm 100% sure it's a accident because I'm not, and I don't care, What I don't and won't do is push my opinion on this subject 1 way or another on anyone who disagrees. It's just not cut and dry enough, no matter how much YOU think it is.

In your opinion, Bye indeed (until you reply in a minute  )
 

Edited April 12, 2016 by jarrylf

[Kishi]

You know thinks are bad when people start re-litigating Nipplegate. 

I call it "reaching". 

Some of the fans like to rehash every misstep in Janet's career since it's their mad day.

[JoeJoe]

Let's just end the Superbowl talk here. Her and Justin planned for something to happen and it didn't happen the way it was supposed to whether the breast was supposed to be shown or not. She suffered for it alone why Justin didn't have her back as he was supposed to being they were friends and fuck buddies. The world eventually got over it "Discipline" era and the Queen came back to give us a great album with lackluster promo

[Jodienda76]

I know how you feel 

Which songs? I'm curious because the same happened with me with some songs

Dosen't Really Matter, Got Til It's Gone, All For You, If, You Want This, 

[Rock & Roll Hall of Game]

She has always been both an album and visual artists. Anybody saying otherwise obviously doesn't know much about Janet or is making up excuses for this lackluster era. Even down to the Discipline era she was a visual artist so I don't wanna hear any shit about her being more of this or that. She's always been both

She's also had multimillion dollar contracts... She went from $10 million per project to a measly $1 million or so from the BMG deal. Only an idiot would think or expect her to produce at the same level as an independent artist 

Y'all stay living in the past but can't accept the present  

[Rock & Roll Hall of Game]

I call it "reaching". 

Some of the fans like to rehash every misstep in Janet's career since it's their mad day.

 

MAD DAY?! DAY? More like MAD YEAR or the ANNUAL SHIT ON JAN-athon 

In like 6 months bishes gonna be like "I miss her. I love her. Come back" or the pessimists "I miss her. I love her. Too bad she's retired now" rant 

[Jodienda76]

Oh who gives a flying fuck if the nipplegate was intentional, or an accident? It was just a fucking titty. And how in the fuck did this thread turn into an OJ simpson case thread?