Laveaux Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 That is a form of self hate, which is directly linked to bigotry and prejudice. As a matter of fact its a direct reaction to it. There are a lot of minority groups that hate aspects of their own culture because they've been programed to do so. Many of the comments in this very thread reflect this dynamic. BINGO! A wise woman once said....Oppressing me will oppress you 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeJoe Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 That is a form of self hate, which is directly linked to bigotry and prejudice. As a matter of fact its a direct reaction to it. There are a lot of minority groups that hate aspects of their own culture because they've been programed to do so. Many of the comments in this very thread reflect this dynamic. No it's not. You're saying that because some gays can't stand when other gays behave a certain way it means they hate themselves? No. There's many girly gays that can't stand masculine gays and talk shit too so would that mean they hate themselves too? Nah especially if both are openly gay you definitely can't say it's self hate. That would make no sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 JoeJoe is right. Someone having a problem with a man in heels isn't necessarily homophobic. Gay men and femininity don't come together hand in hand. It's about reinforcing gender roles. Some transsexual MTF are attracted to women. Biologically they are heterosexual but many will suffer discrimination. It's not necessarily homophobia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOtherFan Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 That is a form of self hate, which is directly linked to bigotry and prejudice. As a matter of fact its a direct reaction to it. There are a lot of minority groups that hate aspects of their own culture because they've been programed to do so. Many of the comments in this very thread reflect this dynamic. This. ...don't even realize it's ingrained self-hate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 How is dressing in women's clothes a par of "gay culture" what exactly is gay culture? The same as this so called "gay lifestyle" people talk about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock & Roll Hall of Game Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 How is dressing in women's clothes a par of "gay culture" what exactly is gay culture? The same as this so called "gay lifestyle" people talk about? Every since the LGB became LGBT. But I guess it's self-hate to disagree with people... And to slightly agree with some gender-roles in professional environments like Award Shows and, ya know, during employment with a half a billion dollar company Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock & Roll Hall of Game Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 That is a form of self hate, which is directly linked to bigotry and prejudice. As a matter of fact its a direct reaction to it. There are a lot of minority groups that hate aspects of their own culture because they've been programed to do so. Many of the comments in this very thread reflect this dynamic. that's not just minority groups.. Religion for example has extremists within their group.. Does that mean the members that denounce their extremist behavior is really hate themselves? No You guys want to pull the "self-hate" card because we disagreed with your unprofessional thinking.. "Oh he or she doesn't like drag queens.. He/she hates themselves" No that's not how it works. I'm not prejudice to drag queens or the real transgender community. I'm not a bigot either this logic you tried to present is all flawed with no stance to back it up besides me not backing up BScott "artistic behavior"... If Mr. Scott was beat up walking down the street.. I would be protesting.. be him changing into a suit on a major award show isn't exactly homophobic as it is "business wise"... but you all only see the glass half-empty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock & Roll Hall of Game Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Another example: Mtv hired Curtis Jackson to do interviews on their red carpet and he wore an over-sized white... sagging pants.. and raggedy timbos.. and was told to change, despite them approving it.. and Curtis went online to cry about it because the major media and majority of people don't care... Is that racism?? and if you agree with MTV... is that self-hate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOtherFan Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Every since the LGB became LGBT. But I guess it's self-hate to disagree with people... And to slightly agree with some gender-roles in professional environments like Award Shows and, ya know, during employment with a half a billion dollar company So men should dress like "men" and women should dress like "women"? Gender roles being men should be men and women should be women? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOtherFan Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 that's not just minority groups.. Religion for example has extremists within their group.. Does that mean the members that denounce their extremist behavior is really hate themselves? No You guys want to pull the "self-hate" card because we disagreed with your unprofessional thinking.. "Oh he or she doesn't like drag queens.. He/she hates themselves" No that's not how it works. I'm not prejudice to drag queens or the real transgender community. I'm not a bigot either this logic you tried to present is all flawed with no stance to back it up besides me not backing up BScott "artistic behavior"... If Mr. Scott was beat up walking down the street.. I would be protesting.. be him changing into a suit on a major award show isn't exactly homophobic as it is "business wise"... but you all only see the glass half-empty It's unprofessional to be a effeminate gay male that it expresses it through his style of dress? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock & Roll Hall of Game Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 So men should dress like "men" and women should dress like "women"? Gender roles being men should be men and women should be women? If you were hired to do a job... don't dress like you're on the red carpet I'm not anti-creativity... be creative.. Hell i've dressed in drag TWICE!!! maybe more... we all have as gay men, tried on a pair of their mothers' heels... but I wouldn't dare go to work, on the clock, in drag It's unprofessional to be a effeminate gay male that it expresses it through his style of dress? It's unprofessional to show up to work in heels as a man and crocs as any gender... Doesn't matter what he... There's a level of professionalism.. especially on the job.. There's a time and place to "express yourself"... and work is not it I dare you to walk into work with heels on... hell even women can't wear heels at many employers. There are some social norms you all are going to have to get over... Nudist don't go to work nude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOtherFan Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 The BET awards isn't a fashion award show... I'm saying.. If you were hired to do a job... don't dress like you're on the red carpet He hosted the segment dealing with what people are wearing. All award shows are fashion events. It's unprofessional to show up to work in heels as a man and crocs as any gender There's a time and place to "express yourself"... and work is not it I dare you to walk into work with heels on... hell even women can't wear heels at many employers.. Again, is it unprofessional to be an effeminate gay male? B.Scott's "work" was hosting the a red carpet event where the focus is fashion... and he wore the agreed upon wardrobe. Every male and female there made at the event made a conscious fashion choice with their outfits. What makes B.Scott's choice "unprofessional"? Especially considering he was wearing the agreed upon outfit. Is it unprofessional to be an effeminate gay male? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock & Roll Hall of Game Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 He hosted the segment dealing with what people are wearing. All award shows are fashion events. Again, is it unprofessional to be an effeminate gay male? B.Scott's "work" was hosting the a red carpet event where the focus is fashion... and he wore the agreed upon wardrobe. Every male and female there made at the event made a conscious fashion choice with their outfits. What makes B.Scott's choice "unprofessional"? Especially considering he was wearing the agreed upon outfit. Is it unprofessional to be an effeminate gay male? There's a difference to being ON the red carpet and talking about the red carpet... Doesn't matter if he's a fashion analyst.. he's not on the RED carpet.. and he was hired Every male & female there weren't getting paid to show up, didn't sign a contract to show up, and literally was on the red carpet where their fashion can be seen... No one cares what the interviewers are wearing.. But BET didn't want to take the attention away from the real stars... No one cares what the fashion analysts are wearing.. all that matters is the red carpet.. It's unprofessional to show up to work in heels as a man or crocs (in any gender.. beside nurses).. some employers forbid high heels to women... is that sexism? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOtherFan Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 There's a difference to being ON the red carpet and talking about the red carpet... Doesn't matter if he's a fashion analyst.. he's not on the RED carpet.. and he was hired Every male & female there weren't getting paid to show up, didn't sign a contract to show up, and literally was on the red carpet where their fashion can be seen... No one cares what the interviewers are wearing.. But BET didn't want to take the attention away from the real stars... No one cares what the fashion analysts are wearing.. all that matters is the red carpet.. It's unprofessional to show up to work in heels as a man or crocs (in any gender.. beside nurses).. some employers forbid high heels to women... is that sexism? He was hired and wore what they all agreed upon, so again, what did he do wrong? If a biological man realizes he's transgendered, goes to work in "professional" feminine wear, and is fired... he has a case for discrimination. The employer may make the trans life hell and look for other ways to fire her, but the employer cannot fire the trans simply for wearing feminine clothing. Also, at this event it was okay for the women to wear heels. The men and women were also allowed to express themselves pretty much any way they wanted in terms of fashion. So, again, what is the issue with B.Scott? Is it unprofessional to be an effeminate gay male? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock & Roll Hall of Game Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Just bc something is agreed upon doesn't mean it's carved in Stone.. MJ agree upon a set number of shows.. AEG increased that number to fit demands Fired bc of dress code? Yeah I don't think that's a case for discrimination. There are some social norms in place that you have to abide by.. He was born a man.. Uses men's bathrooms,. There's no excuse why he can't dress in a nice suit for a job he was hired to do. There are plenty of professional fem men in the business world.. And 0 of them wear heels in business meetings unless they call the shots Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOtherFan Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Just bc something is agreed upon doesn't mean it's carved in Stone.. MJ agree upon a set number of shows.. AEG increased that number to fit demands Fired bc of dress code? Yeah I don't think that's a case for discrimination. There are some social norms in place that you have to abide by.. He was born a man.. Uses men's bathrooms,. There's no excuse why he can't dress in a nice suit for a job he was hired to do. There are plenty of professional fem men in the business world.. And 0 of them wear heels in business meetings unless they call the shots So what you're saying is you agree it's unprofessional and inappropriate to be an effeminate gay male... *Goes back and reads aed05's post* Hmmmmm..... Also, he wasn't in the business world. He was at an entertainment event. The dress code wasn't as strict and he wore the agreed upon wardrobe. Though you can argue BET is a business (which it undoubtedly is), the event itself is geared towards fashion and the self-expression of everyone involved. So again, it all goes back to whether or not it's "unprofessional" to be a effeminate gay male... and now we know you're opinion on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock & Roll Hall of Game Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 So what you're saying is you agree it's unprofessional and inappropriate to be an effeminate gay male... *Goes back and reads aed05's post* Hmmmmm..... Also, he wasn't in the business world. He was at an entertainment event. The dress code wasn't as strict and he wore the agreed upon wardrobe. Though you can argue BET is a business (which it undoubtedly is), the event itself is geared towards fashion and the self-expression of everyone involved. So again, it all goes back to whether or not it's "unprofessional" to be a effeminate gay male... and now we know you're opinion on that. Libel.. i didn't say that AED05's post has nothing to do with me... again.. I have dressed in drag... twice.. as an adult... her logic is "oh you disagree with us so it's automatically self-hate" and that doesn't add up... find your own opinion instead of taking it from someone else.. bc you can end up looking stupid... like she did with her "self-hate" rant.. He agreed with a signed contract with a business... BET... His job wasn't to walk the red carpet but analyze the people on the red carpet... his outfit shouldn't garner more attention than the outfits of the people who matter... He wasn't fired.. he was forced to change and he did and he was thrown back out there to do his job for the hour I told you my opinion 3x already... Don't Trayvon Martin my opinion just bc it doesn't agree with what you think I would say... There are plenty of professional fem men in the business world.. and there are social norms that we all abide by... Bscott didn't get his way so he went online to cry about it in his blog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock & Roll Hall of Game Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 and since B Scott isn't a transgendered... That he wears women's clothes and make up because he's an extremist.. “Transgenders feel that their soul is a woman, like they were born in the wrong body in terms of their gender. I don’t feel that way. I know that I’m a man; I’m happy to be in my body,” B. Scott said. Then wear a suit for your job sir There's a time and place.. Analyzing outfits for an Award show isn't the time for a man to be over the top Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOtherFan Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Libel.. i didn't say that AED05's post has nothing to do with me... again.. I have dressed in drag... twice.. as an adult... her logic is "oh you disagree with us so it's automatically self-hate" and that doesn't add up... find your own opinion instead of taking it from someone else.. bc you can end up looking stupid... like she did with her "self-hate" rant.. He agreed with a signed contract with a business... BET... His job wasn't to walk the red carpet but analyze the people on the red carpet... his outfit shouldn't garner more attention than the outfits of the people who matter... He wasn't fired.. he was forced to change and he did and he was thrown back out there to do his job for the hour I told you my opinion 3x already... Don't Trayvon Martin my opinion just bc it doesn't agree with what you think I would say... There are plenty of professional fem men in the business world.. and there are social norms that we all abide by... Bscott didn't get his way so he went online to cry about it in his blog. No, he WAS removed completely. He was fired. He went to change to comply with their demands and was told he had been replaced. "Internal calls" were made before he was put back on the program. Which means someone went to bat for him, and why? He wasn't the issue. He did everything they asked for. Him being a feminine man was the problem. You said, and I quote... He was born a man.. Uses men's bathrooms,. There's no excuse why he can't dress in a nice suit for a job he was hired to do. Your issue is him being a effeminate man and him expressing that through his style of dress. He didn't conform to the "societal norms" of what man is.. thus you feel it is unprofessional for him to be an effeminate man (Though if you really want to get into it, the "societal norms" exclude you too). *Goes back yet again to read aed05's post yet again* ... Yeah, I think that pretty much covers it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock & Roll Hall of Game Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 No, he WAS removed completely. He was fired. He went to change to comply with their demands and was told he had been replaced. "Internal calls" were made before he was put back on the program. Which means someone went to bat for him, and why? He wasn't the issue. He did everything they asked for. Him being a feminine man was the problem. You said, and I quote... Your issue is him being a effeminate man and him expressing that through his style of dress. He didn't conform to the "societal norms" of what man is.. thus you feel it is unprofessional for him to be an effeminate man (Though if you really want to get into it, the "societal norms" exclude you too). *Goes back yet again to read aed05's post yet again* ... Yeah, I think that pretty much covers it. He was replaced bc the show must go on... can't stop the show because he was snatched off for wearing what he wore No the outfit was the problem.. not that he's a fem I don't care if he's fem or not... what difference does his personality makes? He presented himself as some cross-dresser at a major award show... he was forced to change.. sounds like a dress code violation to me.. No.. look up the word professional.. and look at his outfit.. would you wear that to a job interview? Would you wear that to a business meeting? would you wear that to interview fabulous real celebrities? Continue to look at AED's post.. It will still continue to be irrelevant to me as a person.. And you cannot say otherwise because you don't know me or who I am.. only what I tell you.. None of my tweets/posts have bashed drag queens or men who dress like women... I believe in a free nation but I also believe in business.. and business attire.. and being professional... B Scott said he would work with BET again yeah.. not here F-Listers trying to garner sympathy from the internet for crying bc in the real world is too hard.. and "won't accept" his outfits.. and that's not how professionals dress There is a real world.. and there are rules that abide to it... It's not my fault... but BET's viewers >>>> B Scott in terms of things that matter to BET.. One makes them money.. the other cost... and if you're burden on someone's else's pocket... Then you abide by their rules Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeJoe Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 that's not just minority groups.. Religion for example has extremists within their group.. Does that mean the members that denounce their extremist behavior is really hate themselves? No You guys want to pull the "self-hate" card because we disagreed with your unprofessional thinking.. "Oh he or she doesn't like drag queens.. He/she hates themselves" No that's not how it works. I'm not prejudice to drag queens or the real transgender community. I'm not a bigot either this logic you tried to present is all flawed with no stance to back it up besides me not backing up BScott "artistic behavior"... If Mr. Scott was beat up walking down the street.. I would be protesting.. be him changing into a suit on a major award show isn't exactly homophobic as it is "business wise"... but you all only see the glass half-empty agreed So men should dress like "men" and women should dress like "women"? Gender roles being men should be men and women should be women? no but if some people don't like it it doesn't mean it's self hate. Hell what if I said I think the feminine gays hate themselves being a man and that's why they behave like a girl and vice versa for the butch lesbians who behave like men? Would I be right if I said they hate what they are and that's why they behave like the opposite sex? Nope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOtherFan Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 The outfit was what they agreed upon. The context of "professional" changes when it is an entertainment event where the fashion and self expression of the attendees is significant. So let's put this all together... He wore what they agreed upon, it is an entertainment event where fashion is key and self-expression is welcomed. What did he do wrong other being an effeminate male? What did he do that was unprofessional or inappropriate? *Looks at aed05's post again* Still relevant.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOtherFan Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 no but if some people don't like it it doesn't mean it's self hate. Hell what if I said I think the feminine gays hate themselves being a man and that's why they behave like a girl and vice versa for the butch lesbians who behave like men? Would I be right if I said they hate what they are and that's why they behave like the opposite sex? Nope The argument can be made that you hate what you are (a man) simply for having sex with another man. So, yes, having an issue with a fem gay or butch lesbian is self-hate. It is ingrained. You don't want what they are and what they gravitate towards innately to be seen as reflection upon yourself. You don't want to be seen as "less of a man", so you "hate" it because you feel people see them and think they incorrectly represent you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock & Roll Hall of Game Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 BET calls the shots.. it's their brand... not his... Things change especially in the entertainment world.. Seconds before the person hits the lights... So saying "approved outift" over and over is illogical and just ignorant to the fact Yet he's there to do interviews and judge outfits.. wearing a blouse and heels aren't exactly apart of that job description... The outfit was what he did wrong... If he would stop being so self-centered and actually cared about his "career" he would have got it right the first time... Note this man isn't transgender.. he just likes the way women products feel on him.. Nothing wrong with that but there 's a time and place.. and the BET awards is not the time nor place Your ignorance is showing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOtherFan Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 BET calls the shots.. it's their brand... not his... Things change especially in the entertainment world.. Seconds before the person hits the lights... So saying "approved outift" over and over is illogical and just ignorant to the fact Yet he's there to do interviews and judge outfits.. wearing a blouse and heels aren't exactly apart of that job description... The outfit was what he did wrong... If he would stop being so self-centered and actually cared about his "career" he would have got it right the first time... Note this man isn't transgender.. he just likes the way women products feel on him.. Nothing wrong with that but there 's a time and place.. and the BET awards is not the time nor place Your ignorance is showing. So again, your point is he's wrong from being effeminate.... *Reads aed05's post again* Yes, it is my ignorance that is showing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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