Imma bout to snatch some straight MJ wigs with this...

[Twistedvelvet]

Okay, so this whole Janet followed in the footsteps of Michael thing. Nah. Let's get it straight shall we.

Here's my theory.

Lets start at the 80s.

I will credit MJ for sure with changing the game massively with bringing themes and stories to the music video, incorporating dance within them too. This mainly ofcourse 'Beat it' and 'Thriller'. But that's it until Janet came along and took 'CONTROL'.

Janet was the first to incorporated choreographed dance as a concept to the video from start to finish. I believe it is THIS that is constantly taken for granted today.

It was only THEN we saw MJ begin to do the same in videos for the Bad era. Michael also copied the aggression Janet brought in songs like 'nasty'. You can totally hear and see that in 'Bad' and 'The way you make me feel'. Cause before then he was all soppy.

Not to mention the moves he took from Janet's 'Pleasure Principle' video, like the slide from side to side in 'The way you make me feel'.

Next Janet brings military style dance, choreographed by Anthony Thomas (not MJ lol). Yes, I credit Michael for his military Clothes style, but he wasn't dancing military moves until AFTER 'Rhythm Nation' video.

Janet uses the new jack swing sound on her new album in 1989 'Rhythm Nation'. Michael uses new Jack swing on his next album 'Dangerous' in 1991. Uhhu.

Furthermore, he brings in Herb Ritts to direct 'In the Closet', the same director for Janet's 1991 'Love will never do'. Same style, and a model. Uhhu.

So next Michael gets in trouble with the police, and his reputation is in tatters, meanwhile his sister Janet continues to steal his thunder and slay with her 1993 album 'janet.'

So what does he do, for his next album, finally decides to use her for 'Scream'. Typical uhhu.

Not to mention he 'borrows' Jimmy Jam and Terry to produce 'History'.

This album being his most personal and revealing.

But Janet just snatches the black curly wig back and dies them red, with 'The velvet rope', her most personal album.

I can just imagine Michael going 'Damn, she one up'd me with that'.

It's quite clear at that point (my theory) that being they are so competitive, Michael gave up musically and creatively. He couldn't beat 'Velvet Rope' and he knew it.

So brings in tonnes of produces and doesn't bother to write for 'Vince', that fails as did his movie plans, unlike Janet who has numerous box office hits.

I don't mean to be so harsh, but if you really look back, ever since Janet in 1986 Michael was always behind.

END.

[Reyna ♔]

They sampled from each other alot. No wigs snatched at all.

[janetDAYZ]

@ the fucking title of the thread ALONE

[hotboy06]

Janet was inspired by Micheal and her brothers.

Janet stepped out of the shadows of her brothers in 1986.

The rest is history.

[dimpy]

I also noticed the Pleasure Principle face frame she does, MJ did in Speed Demon. After 1986 she definitely took flight and did the damn thing.

Um, and did anyone else notice his panther dance from Black or White is pretty much the EXACT same as idea as 'The Knowledge', which just so happened to be one of his favorite songs from his favorite Janet album? No?

They definitely inspired each other, but I honestly see him copping Janet more than vice versa. Other than the military style idea for Rhythm Nation...I don't see much else. He also used some of her interludes during 'Dangerous.' "You know you want me..." and "get the point? good. let's dance." < Not really copying or anything, but he definitely incorporated it into his worldwide tour...

And this is all coming from a huge MJ fan too, so don't try to pull that "stan" shit on me. Just some observations.

[Mr. Wonder]

The sad part is I can't even disagree. :lmao:

Although I will say that MJ had a little bit of aggressiveness in "Beat It" - the guitar lick, the pulsating beat, the vocal style. But it was the Control album that made him more edgy, like Janet was.

[henrietta.]

I've been saying this for the longest....Janet >>>>>>> MJ.

[Twistedvelvet]

My feeling his he craved Janet's creative freedom. I think Thriller restricted him.

There is no denying he did his own thing, like the second half of Dangerous album. He wrote so many of his songs and composed them. But I kinda feel he ran outta ideas and started to look to Janet for inspiration. I think he wished he did alot of the things Janet did, first.

[Mr. Wonder]

It just gets better and better! :lmao:

[henrietta.]

[ThatOtherFan]

Okay, so this whole Janet followed in the footsteps of Michael thing. Nah. Let's get it straight shall we.

Here's my theory.

Lets start at the 80s.

I will credit MJ for sure with changing the game massively with bringing themes and stories to the music video, incorporating dance within them too. This mainly ofcourse 'Beat it' and 'Thriller'. But that's it until Janet came along and took 'CONTROL'.

Janet was the first to incorporated choreographed dance as a concept to the video from start to finish. I believe it is THIS that is constantly taken for granted today.

It was only THEN we saw MJ begin to do the same in videos for the Bad era. Michael also copied the aggression Janet brought in songs like 'nasty'. You can totally hear and see that in 'Bad' and 'The way you make me feel'. Cause before then he was all soppy.

Not to mention the moves he took from Janet's 'Pleasure Principle' video, like the slide from side to side in 'The way you make me feel'.

Next Janet brings military style dance, choreographed by Anthony Thomas (not MJ lol). Yes, I credit Michael for his military Clothes style, but he wasn't dancing military moves until AFTER 'Rhythm Nation' video.

Janet uses the new jack swing sound on her new album in 1989 'Rhythm Nation'. Michael uses new Jack swing on his next album 'Dangerous' in 1991. Uhhu.

Furthermore, he brings in Herb Ritts to direct 'In the Closet', the same director for Janet's 1991 'Love will never do'. Same style, and a model. Uhhu.

So next Michael gets in trouble with the police, and his reputation is in tatters, meanwhile his sister Janet continues to steal his thunder and slay with her 1993 album 'janet.'

So what does he do, for his next album, finally decides to use her for 'Scream'. Typical uhhu.

Not to mention he 'borrows' Jimmy Jam and Terry to produce 'History'.

This album being his most personal and revealing.

But Janet just snatches the black curly wig back and dies them red, with 'The velvet rope', her most personal album.

I can just imagine Michael going 'Damn, she one up'd me with that'.

It's quite clear at that point (my theory) that being they are so competitive, Michael gave up musically and creatively. He couldn't beat 'Velvet Rope' and he knew it.

So brings in tonnes of produces and doesn't bother to write for 'Vince', that fails as did his movie plans, unlike Janet who has numerous box office hits.

I don't mean to be so harsh, but if you really look back, ever since Janet in 1986 Michael was always behind.

END.

No..sweetie...no

They both inspired each other. Simple as that.

[dimpy]

They both inspired each other. Simple as that.

Yeah. But one used the other's material in a concrete way more than the other

[Twistedvelvet]

No..sweetie...no

They both inspired each other. Simple as that.

When did Janet ever take from MJ? There's nothing Janet has done that Michael did before her.

Yes Michael inspired her to perform, but there is nothing concrete she took from him like he did her. She did her own thing.

[henrietta.]

I foresee a scalping coming soon

[Velvet.Xone]

I've been saying this for the longest....Janet >>>>>>> MJ.

So much Sweet Gloooooorious Tea in this thread

[henrietta.]

So much Sweet Gloooooorious Tea in this thread

Mike was good at what he did, but Janet is just better. Janet's albums are better, majority of Janet's singles are better, and her performances are 100x better.

[Mr. Wonder]

Just for the sake of hearing both ends of the spectrum, I don't mind TOF doing the most in this thread.

And let's not turn this into a bash MJ thread.

[bu.]

But I thought Janets military dance in Rhythm Nation was inspired by Captain EO? ItS 5.30 am and I ain't slept so excuse me

[dimpy]

But I thought Janets military dance in Rhythm Nation was inspired by Captain EO? ItS 5.30 am and I ain't slept so excuse me

Literally all she got from that is, "OH! Military style! Good idea!" Nothing concrete like vice versa though.

[TwistedElegance™]

As strange as it may seem, Janet and Michael never really reminded me of each other during the high points of their careers. Obviously there was inspiration on both of their parts, though.

[ThatOtherFan]

Yeah. But one used the other's material in a concrete way more than the other

No, they both influenced what the other did in each "eras" of their careers.

When did Janet ever take from MJ? There's nothing Janet has done that Michael did before her.

Yes Michael inspired her to perform, but there is nothing concrete she took from him like he did her. She did her own thing.

One can say that everything you credited Janet doing can be related back to her influence from Mike.

I'm NOT saying that, just so we're clear...but the argument CAN be made, and legitimately.

As BOTH have said at various times, they thought EXACTLY alike in terms of the business and their careers. That breeds a natural sibling rivalry and competition between the two, because they were both at the TOP in terms of success and creativity.

For instance, Yes Janet did get the inspiration for the military thing from Mike's Captain EO, and she DID take it the next level, but Mike was ALSO planning to do the exact same thing around that time. Janet told him her plans and he said okay. Janet used it for videos and performances and Mike used the idea for performances. An example of them thinking of the exact same thing at the exact same time.

They took from one another..and both just happened to be the BIGGEST acts at the same exact time. Kind of unbelievable if you really think about it.

Just for the sake of hearing both ends of the spectrum, I don't mind TOF doing the most in this thread.

And let's not turn this into a bash MJ thread.

I'm not going to do the most.

Yes, I can see the seeds being planted for a MJ bash thread, and there's no reason to take it there.

[dimpy]

No, they both influenced what the other did in each "eras" of their careers.

No one is arguing influence here. I am arguing that Janet has as much concrete evidence of blatantly copping these ideas as Michael did with her. No hate, not even saying one is better than the other, because in that regard, I do consider their styles so different that I don't even like to compare, but you can't really deny some of the really obvious things that were pointed out here.

I would also like to take this time to commend Janet on actually using a couple relevant rappers as features on her songs. I never understood why, with the exception of Biggie, MJ decided to use irrelevant rappers on all his songs

[ThatOtherFan]

No one is arguing influence here. I am arguing that Janet has as much concrete evidence of blatantly copping these ideas as Michael did with her. No hate, not even saying one is better than the other, because in that regard, I do consider their styles so different that I don't even like to compare, but you can't really deny some of the really obvious things that were pointed out here.

That's the thing though, the argument can be that Mike has just as much "concrete evidence"...When you have two siblings who think exactly alike in terms of their careers. It's going to happen.

Once Janet arrived and found success with "Control" it's obvious they both pushed the other in terms of taking it to the next level with what ever they were doing in their respective careers.

[dimpy]

That's the thing though, the argument can be that Mike has just as much "concrete evidence"...When you have two siblings who think exactly alike in terms of their careers. It's going to happen.

Okay, so what are some concrete ways that Janet took off Michael's thoughts/ideas and made them into her own, besides Captain EO/Rhythm Nation?

I think people in general like to say Janet copied off Michael just because she's the little sister, and ignore all the points made in this thread (and I'm sure there are others that haven't yet been made) just because he's the big brother and he's Michael Jackson.

[ThatOtherFan]

Okay, so what are some concrete ways that Janet took off Michael's thoughts/ideas and made them into her own, besides Captain EO/Rhythm Nation?

I think people in general like to say Janet copied off Michael just because she's the little sister, and ignore all the points made in this thread (and I'm sure there are others that haven't yet been made) just because he's the big brother and he's Michael Jackson.

ALOT of what Janet did is influenced by Mike. As is the case with virtually every artist that came out in the 80's and during MTV's domination of the music industry (in terms of videos and labels using and depending upon the network to promote their artists). Yes, Janet took those things to the next level, but that doesn't negate the fact that she was influenced by Michael, just like virtually everyone else.

For instance:

- Twistedvelvet crediting Janet with incorporating choreographed dance as a concept in video from start to finish. YES, Janet did take it to the next level, but you can't negate the fact that Michael virtually created the template for the music video (as we know it today), dance in music video, and how it is presented to an audience.

- Next he goes into the military theme, which Mike had done previously...and BOTH thought of the idea to tweak what Mike did in Captain EO for their next projects...An example of them thinking of ideas at the exact same time.

- The Rhythm Nation album itself, it's a documented fact how much he loved and was influenced by this project, which influenced what he did with "Dangerous", but to dismiss the influence and creativity Michael had during that time, prior to it, and after it? It's just silly..

- Then he mentions Mike using Janet in "Scream". Mike had been asking Janet since the RN era to collaborate. She said no. She wanted to have her own place in the industry and she didn't want to be seen as riding his coat tails. Which shows why Janet found success that her other siblings never did. She didn't want to be in Mike's shadow. If Michael had asked ANY of his other siblings to appear in something of his they would have jumped at it IMMEDIATELY, but Janet didn't. However, Twisted portrays the situation as if he ran to Janet after the allegations, and that's simply not true.

- Then he tries to portray the situation as if VR snatched HIStory out the game in terms of "personal and deep albums". Again, that's not true. One may prefer VR over HIStory, but HIStory is an extremely personal album detailing the pain of something that would plague Mike for the rest of his life. Some people simply dismiss it as him "complaining", and that's unfortunate.

Bottom line is they influenced each other, and it's silly to try to give more credit to one over the other in terms of influence. It's like when MJ stans try to give Mike credit for everything in Janet's career...it's stupid.