Fighting at Burger King over a damn double whopper

[SonofBaldwin]

But you can't use scientific evidence and research to prove that it's based on supremacy. Because supremacy in itself is not a measurable variable. Can you measure racism? Can you measure discrimination? No you can't. It's inconsistent. The best way to determine it is using personal accounts of the situation. I've been hearing stories since I was in high school about how White ppl are shocked when a Black person speaks eloquently, or when they exhibit a level of class and professionalism on a day to day basis. We just had a discussion about this in Victimology yesterday. When you don't reinforce the stereotypes of a Black person, then for some reason, you aren't grouped with those who do. Somehow you're different.

Instead of relying what you think is "common sense logic," how about you actually research the subject so that you don't keep making the same wrong assumptions over and over and over again just because you think it sounds like it makes sense?

Let me give you an example of why you have to do the research and you CAN'T rely on conventional wisdom when approaching these matters.

In 2009, the NYPD stopped and frisked 575,000 people as a part of a program designed to arrest people carrying illegal drugs, weapons or other contraband.

Of those 575,000 people that they stopped, 490,000 were black or Latino and only 53,000 were white--even though 35% of the population of NYC is white, 26% is Latino/Hispanic, and 23% is black.

So, you would expect that because they stopped NINE TIMES as many black and Latino people as they did white people, that blacks and Latinos carrying drugs, weapons, or other contraband would have FAR exceeded the number of white people found with drugs, weapons, or other contraband, right?

Wrong.

What they found was this:

The arrest rates were virtually the same. Whites were arrested in slightly more than 6 percent of the stops, blacks in slightly fewer than 6 percent. About 1.7 percent of whites who were stopped were found to have a weapon, while 1.1 percent of blacks were found with one.

Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/13/nyregion/13frisk.html

So even though NINE TIMES as many blacks and Latinos were stopped, white people were the ones with the most illegal drugs, guns, and other contraband. 490,000 blacks and Latinos. 53,000 whites. And whites were the ones who broke the law most often. Yet, the most common narrative would have you believe that it's the blacks and Latinos that we should be worried about. They're the ones who are criminals. They're the ones who should be stopped and searched.

So, the NYPD listened to the racist narratives and stopped nine times as many blacks and Latinos as they did whites and found out that BAM! It's the white people who are carrying the majority of the stuff we should be worried about.

And yet, even when presented with this FACTUAL EVIDENCE, we still BELIEVE the lie.

I feel enormously sad for people who can't let go of their opinions even when they are proven to be factually incorrect.

[Paul]

Oh, thats how much credit I give to your post...couldnt even bothered reading it properly

i saw shooting, and thought of drugs

It wasn't my post

[SonofBaldwin]

Of course black people are not more or less likely to engage in undesirable behaviour than white people. I never said that. I said they types of undesirable behaviour they engage in are DIFFERENT.

With regards to the stats on marriage in the USA you can look it up. Its all out there.

Being as knowledgable as you are on this subject you should also realise that the books you read and the statistics used will also be biased. There are just as many studies and books out there which show the opposite. Thats why sometimes drawing from our own experiences for the sake of discussion in a thread like this can be equally valid in my opinion.

Show me the books that show the opposite; title and author, please. Thank you.

Because I've read over 200 books on these matters and while they approach the subject matter differently and often come to different conclusions about WHY certain things are happening, they definitively show that race isn't a factor at all; CLASS is.

[XYZ]

I wasn't comparing the two.. :crazy:

Ummm

Yes u are

you are referring to Hendrika's comment, and comparing the two

or at least comparing the reaction we would have, when the incidents are even comparable in this first place

it wasnt a good analogy 2 use

[XYZ]

It wasn't my post

Oh, sorry Pauly

I quoted the wrong thing, but u know that i wasnt referring to u

I should be back in bed, but kinda keep getting up to post...im distracted lol

[Shawn1814]

Ummm

Yes u are

you are referring to Hendrika's comment, and comparing the two

I gave an example..

[Paul]

Instead of relying what you think is "common sense logic," how about you actually research the subject so that you don't keep making the same wrong assumptions over and over and over again just because you think it sounds like it makes sense?

Let me give you an example of why you have to do the research and you CAN'T rely on conventional wisdom when approaching these matters.

In 2009, the NYPD stopped and frisked 575,000 people as a part of a program designed to arrest people carrying illegal drugs, weapons or other contraband.

Of those 575,000 people that they stopped, 490,000 were black or Latino and only 53,000 were white--even though 35% of the population of NYC is white, 26% is Latino/Hispanic, and 23% is black.

So, you would expect that because they stopped NINE TIMES as many black and Latino people as they did white people, that blacks and Latinos carrying drugs, weapons, or other contraband would have FAR exceeded the number of white people found with drugs, weapons, or other contraband, right?

Wrong.

What they found was this:

The arrest rates were virtually the same. Whites were arrested in slightly more than 6 percent of the stops, blacks in slightly fewer than 6 percent. About 1.7 percent of whites who were stopped were found to have a weapon, while 1.1 percent of blacks were found with one.

Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/13/nyregion/13frisk.html

So even though NINE TIMES as many blacks and Latinos were stopped, white people were the ones with the most illegal drugs, guns, and other contraband. 490,000 blacks and Latinos. 53,000 whites. And whites were the ones who broke the law most often. Yet, the most common narrative would have you believe that it's the blacks and Latinos that we should be worried about. They're the ones who are criminals. They're the ones who should be stopped and searched.

So, the NYPD listened to the racist narratives and stopped nine times as many blacks and Latinos as they did whites and found out that BAM! It's the white people who are carrying the majority of the stuff we should be worried about.

And yet, even when presented with this FACTUAL EVIDENCE, we still BELIEVE the lie.

I feel enormously sad for people who can't let go of their opinions even when they are proven to be factually incorrect.

That doesn't surprise me.........but it still doesn't change the fact that SOME stereotypes have a grain of truth to them and that most people who viewed the vid in this thread were not surprised because we have seen this type of behaviour time and again with our own eyes......

[SonofBaldwin]

Funny. No one brought up this woman's race:

But if she was black, y'all would've been all: "See how black people are!?" "I'm so ashamed to be black!"

No matter how many times white people behave in inappropriate ways, their race is NEVER a factor. But it is ALWAYS for black people.

The scariest, and most telling, thing about that is that the black-race-judging comes from other black people just as much as it comes from white people--proving, for me, just how effective white supremacy is.

Dear Sad, Sad Black People Who Believe the Very Worst About Yourselves and Your Community Based on Stereotypical Examples While Ignoring the Scientific Evidence,

I hope you seek psychological help very, very soon.

Love,

Robert

[henrietta.]

Funny. No one brought up this woman's race:

But if she was black, y'all would've been all: "See how black people are!?" "I'm so ashamed to be black!"

Ugh @ sheep.

We've been there, done that on the old board.

[XYZ]

Funny. No one brought up this woman's race:

But if she was black, y'all would've been all: "See how black people are!?" "I'm so ashamed to be black!"

Ugh @ sheep.

I would have referred to her as white ghetto trash, but didnt want to go with the race card...instead i focused on her behavior

SoB, you're letting your own biases and baggage get in the way of your arguments

And btw, just because someone didnt write it, doesnt mean that didnt think it

[SonofBaldwin]

I would have referred to her as white ghetto trash, but didnt want to go with the race card...instead i focused on her behavior

SoB, you're letting your own biases and baggage get in the way of your arguments

And btw, just because someone didnt write it, doesnt mean that didnt think it

But you didn't write it.

But here, you have NO problem writing it.

You speak of my biases, but you should take the oar out of your eye before you tell me about the twig in mine.

[XYZ]

But you didn't write it.

But here, you have NO problem writing it.

You speak of my biases, but you should take the oar out of your eye before you tell me about the twig in mine.

What are u even talking about?

[Paul]

Show me the books that show the opposite; title and author, please. Thank you.

Because I've read over 200 books on these matters and while they approach the subject matter differently and often come to different conclusions about WHY certain things are happening, they definitively show that race isn't a factor at all; CLASS is.

I am not saying that people are predetermined to behave in a particular way because they are a certain race. I know class is the overriding factor, but CULTURE plays a part in it too, and there are certain aspects of the e.g black American subculture (based on historical and social experiences) which have influenced behavioural norms which at extreemes display differently in types of antisocial behaviour which is more common in black people than white people comparitively.

[Paul]

Funny. No one brought up this woman's race:

But if she was black, y'all would've been all: "See how black people are!?" "I'm so ashamed to be black!"

No matter how many times white people behave in inappropriate ways, their race is NEVER a factor. But it is ALWAYS for black people.

The scariest, and most telling, thing about that is that the black-race-judging comes from other black people just as much as it comes from white people--proving, for me, just how effective white supremacy is.

Dear Sad, Sad Black People Who Believe the Very Worst About Yourselves and Your Community Based on Stereotypical Examples While Ignoring the Scientific Evidence,

I hope you seek psychological help very, very soon.

Love,

Robert

I saw that video and it didn't surprise me either because she looks like a meth head.

[henrietta.]

What are u even talking about?

He's trying to say that we wouldn't make a racist remark in the other thread since it has to deal with a white person, and since this one has to deal with a black person we're making those comments. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't see any touch of racism in any posts until they started their rants.

[SonofBaldwin]

Wait--

I'm arguing with people who OBVIOUSLY don't have college degrees in the subject(if they have college degrees at all) and I'm surprised by the lunacy of their responses?

at myself!

This is the Janet board. Let me remember that the people here are experts in JANET and really, obviously, not much else.

Let me save my academic arguments for people who are actually academics.

No disrespect to Paul or Austin who I believe are wonderful, beautiful people. But I need to have these discussions with people who actually studied the subject and reviewed the research.

I bow out. You guys win.

[Paul]

He's trying to say that we wouldn't make a racist remark in the other thread since it has to deal with a white person, and since this one has to deal with a black person we're making those comments. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't see any touch of racism in any posts until they started their rants.

I just saw blatin being racist as usual lol

[XYZ]

SoB u are trying create something that isnt there

sorry dude

and yes, we all know that people love to flee when they are losing the argument

(yet try to create this facade that they are winning and unbothered....TOF does it all the time :lol:

[henrietta.]

I just saw blatin being racist as usual lol

No surprise there

SoB u are trying create something that isnt there

sorry dude

and yes, we all know that people love to flee when they are losing the argument

(yet try to create this facade that they are winning and unbothered....TOF does it all the time :lol:

Enough said.

[Shawn1814]

I just saw blatin being racist as usual lol

Where?

[Paul]

Wait--

I'm arguing with people who OBVIOUSLY don't have college degrees in the subject(if they have college degrees at all) and I'm surprised by the lunacy of their responses?

at myself!

This is the Janet board. Let me remember that the people here are experts in JANET and really, obviously, not much else.

Let me save my academic arguments for people who are actually academics.

No disrespect to Paul or Austin who I believe are wonderful, beautiful people. But I need to have these discussions with people who actually studied the subject and reviewed the research.

I bow out. You guys win.

That is really ignorant of you.........I have a university degree and a masters degree, and if you want to discuss Globalization and Development (my masters), or the myriad of social and political as well as environmental topics that came under my Geography degree we can.

I did whole essays on statistical analysis and skewed data and variables which is why I can claim that the books that you seem to be basing your arguments on contain as many biases and skewed facts as you claim are in my head.

In your books do you look at who wrote them, where did they collate the data, why those areas, which methods of sampling did they use.........all of which and more effect the outcome and "facts" in a particular case.

Want to look at your NY police study? Most academics would not accept that study to be valid unless there was another city to compare the results with. using 10 or more USA cities would establish a pattern that could be uses, not just one city. Why then did they (or you) just present us with the NY numbers, what about NJ, SF, LA etc etc.......

Get the point. You shouldnt be so ignorant.

ANd I love you too, but im disappointed with you right now

[SonofBaldwin]

Harpo and Henrietta:

Where did you obtain your master's degrees? And what was your area of study?

[henrietta.]

Harpo and Henrietta:

Where did you obtain your master's degrees? And what was your area of study?

As if it's any of your business, I got my bach. in business and once my military contract is officially over soon, I will be going for sports & entertainment management. But I love how you try to seem so educated by googling terms and shit just because like a true ignorant dumbass, you were trying to create something when there was absolutely nothing there. And one more thing, you don't have to have an education to be able to use something called common sense. Let that digest in your system a bit before you google more Webster terms.

[SonofBaldwin]

That is really ignorant of you.........I have a university degree and a masters degree, and if you want to discuss Globalization and Development (my masters), or the myriad of social and political as well as environmental topics that came under my Geography degree we can.

I did whole essays on statistical analysis and skewed data and variables which is why I can claim that the books that you seem to be basing your arguments on contain as many biases and skewed facts as you claim are in my head.

I've asked you to name them before, to give me references, to point me to the research. You still haven't.

Dude, you think you're dealing with an amateur, right? Come on now, Paul. You know better than that.

[Mr. Wonder]

Instead of relying what you think is "common sense logic," how about you actually research the subject so that you don't keep making the same wrong assumptions over and over and over again just because you think it sounds like it makes sense?

Let me give you an example of why you have to do the research and you CAN'T rely on conventional wisdom when approaching these matters.

In 2009, the NYPD stopped and frisked 575,000 people as a part of a program designed to arrest people carrying illegal drugs, weapons or other contraband.

Of those 575,000 people that they stopped, 490,000 were black or Latino and only 53,000 were white--even though 35% of the population of NYC is white, 26% is Latino/Hispanic, and 23% is black.

So, you would expect that because they stopped NINE TIMES as many black and Latino people as they did white people, that blacks and Latinos carrying drugs, weapons, or other contraband would have FAR exceeded the number of white people found with drugs, weapons, or other contraband, right?

Wrong.

What they found was this:

The arrest rates were virtually the same. Whites were arrested in slightly more than 6 percent of the stops, blacks in slightly fewer than 6 percent. About 1.7 percent of whites who were stopped were found to have a weapon, while 1.1 percent of blacks were found with one.

Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/13/nyregion/13frisk.html

So even though NINE TIMES as many blacks and Latinos were stopped, white people were the ones with the most illegal drugs, guns, and other contraband. 490,000 blacks and Latinos. 53,000 whites. And whites were the ones who broke the law most often. Yet, the most common narrative would have you believe that it's the blacks and Latinos that we should be worried about. They're the ones who are criminals. They're the ones who should be stopped and searched.

So, the NYPD listened to the racist narratives and stopped nine times as many blacks and Latinos as they did whites and found out that BAM! It's the white people who are carrying the majority of the stuff we should be worried about.

And yet, even when presented with this FACTUAL EVIDENCE, we still BELIEVE the lie.

I feel enormously sad for people who can't let go of their opinions even when they are proven to be factually incorrect.

You just proved my point! :lmao: You can't measure prejudice and racism because it's inconsistent! :lmao: There's a number of variables that play in to those statistics.

And if you want to use statistical data we surely can:

According to the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, a report was published and found that current illicit drug use among persons aged 12 or older varied by race/ethnicity in 2008, with the lowest rate among Asians (3.6 percent) (Figure 2.9). Rates were 14.7 percent for persons reporting two or more races, 10.1 percent for blacks, 9.5 percent for American Indians or Alaska Natives, 8.2 percent for whites, 7.3 percent of Native Hawaiians or Other Pacific Islanders, and 6.2 percent for Hispanics.

http://www.oas.samhsa.gov/nsduh/2k8nsduh/2k8Results.pdf

According to the Justice of Bureau Statistics, of the 253,300 state prison inmates serving time for drug offenses at year end 2005, 113,500 (44.8%) were black, 51,100 (20.2%) were Hispanic, and 72,300 (28.5%) were white.

http://www.ojp.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/p07.pdf

Now based on the FACTS, tell me who do you think the cops are more likely to stop?

Perhaps you should step back from the keys and really read what you're typing. Trying to use statistical data to explain an immeasurable concept such as racism and prejudice is STUPID. It's like trying to measure the length of the sky. Now granted there are a number of factors that play into the above posted data, they are evidence of who is carrying drugs and who is and who isn't getting away with it.

When you are in a room full of any race, and you are the token Black/White/Asian/etc, you represent the race as a whole regardless of whether or not you want to believe it. If you put a White, a Black, and an Asian in a room and ask them what they eat daily, you'd expect the White person to say they eat stuff like oatmeal, steak, and fish. You'd expect the Black person to say they eat collard greens, yams, mac n cheese. And you'd expect the Asian to say they eat fried duck, chow mien, and rice. Why? Because that's general association. Same with race. We expect White ppl to shoot up the office (which is true because MSNBC reported that 70% of office shootings are conducted by White men). We expect Blacks to be loud and ignorant in public. When you do no exhibit those qualities, only then do people start to disassociate you with the prejudice/stereotypes.

Sit.