aed05 Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 After watching the full behind the music and the clips from the Oprah show, I feel that there was a lack of communication on Toni's part and a lack of understanding on Oprah's. Toni didn't go into detail about just how bad her deal was. She didn't explain that Laface was only paying her like 10 cents for every album sold. She didn't explain how they recouped all there expenses that they had her thinking were gifts. She didn't explain that she was young, dumb and full of ambition, so she signed whatever they put in front of her. At the time she was still signed to laface so she couldn't go all the way in on LA and babyface. So Oprah only had her spending habits to go off of and that wasn't the full picture. Oprah was shady, but truth be told it did look like Toni was just irresponsible. But in reality, there was more to the story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted November 1, 2012 Author Share Posted November 1, 2012 After watching the full behind the music and the clips from the Oprah show, I feel that there was a lack of communication on Toni's part and a lack of understanding on Oprah's. Toni didn't go into detail about just how bad her deal was. She didn't explain that Laface was only paying her like 10 cents for every album sold. She didn't explain how they recouped all there expenses that they had her thinking were gifts. She didn't explain that she was young, dumb and full of ambition, so she signed whatever they put in front of her. At the time she was still signed to laface so she couldn't go all the way in on LA and babyface. So Oprah only had her spending habits to go off of and that wasn't the full picture. Oprah was shady, but truth be told it did look like Toni was just irresponsible. But in reality, there was more to the story. NO I thought the same thing ....you missed the point others in this thread already knew, Oprah gave her the chance to explain all that and even after that Oprah broke the whole story down into its very basic issues, even if you had a shit deal, you spent this money with no knowledge of what and when you were getting paid? Oprah actually gave Toni a number of chances to explain herself and save her rep, Oprah asked did you sign your own checks? Well if you didn't know when the money was coming nor how much how did you spend without considering the money may never be there? No matter how famous you are you never count your chickens before your eggs hatch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted November 1, 2012 Author Share Posted November 1, 2012 Here's my opinion for what it is worth, I think Toni was young and naive, I think she didn't want to be bothered with the numbers, its kinda like being in a scam but you let it go down anyway, they buying all this stuff and I get to be famous and pretty all the time. The problem with so many people with looks, or those that become famous for anything not related to brains, is they believe they don't need brains to be themselves. I can be a famous person and that means I have money and no I don't have to count it. ......Gurl have that sit right there, the judge will be with you in a moment....oh you look so pretty today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarrylf Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 I LOVED her behind the music (my fave part was the clips of the sisters performing Good Life in 90, I always wanted to see them perform it because....I can't tell who anyone is besides Toni and possibly Tamar) ..................I honestly thought I was the only 1 who thought she blew up the Oprah thing, and that she just didn't & don't get it......I thought if I said something yall'd chop it up to my love for Oprah lol. But many of you have said spot on exactly what I felt about that whole situation. I really don't like that she and they didn't confirm anything about a "new album". They talked about I Heart You ofcourse, but she recorded over 10 songs and was almost a month away from releasing something when she decided not to............the fuck? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CK1Czar Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 ...my love for Oprah... I love her too, but she was spot on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOtherFan Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 I never watched the Oprah interview and I think I get it now, Toni played a much bigger role in her own undoing than just having a bad record deal. I think Oprah was harsh with Toni because I just get the impression even from looking at Oprah's body language that Oprah just doesn't understand how someone could be so stupid with their money, in Oprah's defense she does ask Toni how did this shit happen. Oh watching Toni talk I see it now, she really was bad with her money, even Oprah called her out on common sense if you don't know when or how much is coming in how are you spending? Even if you knew you had a shit deal Toni didn't explain (enough for the most people to understand) and Oprah was shady. It's like TLC's Behind The Music... Lisa broke it down to the very penny of why they were broke. There was no money coming in. lol They sold 10 million, generated $75 million and pocketed about $300K a piece (and that's probably before percentages to managers, salaries for assistants, etc) Toni had some nice things, but more than likely all of her money was going into her career. Her image, the video budgets, performance expenses, even the expenses to record the albums, etc... were being recouped from her before she saw a dime. Take away the cars, Gucci silverware, etc... she still would've had to file for bankruptcy because she simply had a bad deal. She wasn't the only LaFace artist to go through that either. Touring wise she was without support (meaning she was still paying for everything) and any profits were owed to the label so they could recoup monies they had given her upfront. Janet, Mike, etc... had the luxury of growing up in the industry, knowing the biz, surrounding themselves with people that made sure they got the best deals. It also didn't hurt that Mike and Janet were the two of the biggest artists in the world, so they could DEMAND better contracts (higher royalties etc) for that reason alone. Anyway, like I said... Oprah was shady. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarrylf Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 It just hit me that TLC & Toni both didnt tour enough/right for their softmore albums .....you guys think the label might've done that on purpose or jus didnt stress the importance of touring to it's artists? Like think about it both acts had small/normal tours for their 1st albums (in fact I think they opend for each other when they were new) and then had MEGA successful 2nd albums but didnt have major tours for them that they should've....interesting.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOtherFan Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 It just hit me that TLC & Toni both didnt tour enough/right for their softmore albums .....you guys think the label might've done that on purpose or jus didnt stress the importance of touring to it's artists? Like think about it both acts had small/normal tours for their 1st albums (in fact I think they opend for each other when they were new) and then had MEGA successful 2nd albums but didnt have major tours for them that they should've....interesting.... IMO Because they were black artists and it was still during the time where black artists couldn't do "mega tours" unless you're Michael or Janet. That's still the case to this day actually (in some ways) Promoters usually don't have faith in black artists to do major tours so they're forced to do theatre tours... there is money in a theatre tour don't get me wrong, but not a significant amount especially if you're an artist like Toni that owes major money to the label because of a bad deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarrylf Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 IMO Because they were black artists and it was still during the time where black artists couldn't do "mega tours" unless you're Michael or Janet. That's still the case to this day actually (in some ways) Promoters usually don't have faith in black artists to do major tours so they're forced to do theatre tours... there is money in a theatre tour don't get me wrong, but not a significant amount especially if you're an artist like Toni that owes major money to the label because of a bad deal. But Whitney & Tina were big tour artist, In Whitne's case they sent her out world wide for her 2nd album, and you had Anita Baker & Boyz II Men & even En Vogue back in the early 90's weredoing pretty big tours, so I don't think it was all about skin, I kinda have to put that 1 on LaFace because I think even Bad Boy had Mary J. & Jodeci going on world tours. Like I get and understand your point but I think LAFace had something going on..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aed05 Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 It just hit me that TLC & Toni both didnt tour enough/right for their softmore albums TLC toured for CSC. And they were doing arena shows. They used the footage from that tour for the "Diggin on you" video. And Toni also toured because her sisters were her background singers on those tours. But the joke was on them because Laface had them sponsoring their own tours. So they were paying for all the tour expensive out of their on album money. So they still would not have saw a dime. They had bad deals! Point blank and period. Crazy sexy cool sold 22 mill worldwide! TLC was selling spice girls numbers. Yet the spice girls are still paid, while Chilli and T-boz are holding own by a thread. Toni is only stable now because of the reality show. She's probably making more now than she did at the height of her fame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted November 2, 2012 Author Share Posted November 2, 2012 LaFace Records to Toni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwistedElegance™ Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 This was a great episode. It's a real shame the wheels fell off relatively early on in Toni's career. She had the talent, personality and drive to be even bigger than she was, but I forgot just how much she went through. Loved her recap of More Than a Woman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheaps Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 I wonder what other artists came up with nothing while signed to LaFace... Wasn't Usher signed to LaFace? How is it he didn't go bankrupt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CK1Czar Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 I wonder what other artists came up with nothing while signed to LaFace... Wasn't Usher signed to LaFace? How is it he didn't go bankrupt? He probably had someone checking over his finances and contracts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted November 3, 2012 Author Share Posted November 3, 2012 I wonder what other artists came up with nothing while signed to LaFace... Wasn't Usher signed to LaFace? How is it he didn't go bankrupt? HIS MAMA......THE SAME WOMAN THAT TOLD HIM DO NOT MARRY THAT TAMESHAMAN 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aed05 Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 He probably had someone checking over his finances and contracts He also had a stage mother who handled her business up until he married Tameka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aed05 Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 HIS MAMA......THE SAME WOMAN THAT TOLD HIM DO NOT MARRY THAT TAMESHAMAN Bingo!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock & Roll Hall of Game Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 I wonder what other artists came up with nothing while signed to LaFace... Wasn't Usher signed to LaFace? How is it he didn't go bankrupt? He knew how to handle his money whereas Toni doesn't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock & Roll Hall of Game Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Truth be told, Toni signed a bad deal with Laface. People forget that Toni went bankrupt a year after TLC, when both artist were at the height of their fame. She was never paid properly for her first two albums, which were her most successful albums. If you're not making the right money at your peak, you'll never be stable at your nadir. Toni's first album sold 6 or 7 mill and her second went diamond. Yeah she bought Gucci dishes and Tiffany towels, but with those types of record sells, she should have been able to afford it. But her deal was shady, so LA, Pebbles, their greedy son, Babyface, Tracy and their kids were all living off royalties that should have been going to Toni, lisa, chilli, t-boz and the rest of the label. Toni was in the hole from day one because her money was never right from jump. do you know how much an artist gets from a record sale? The store takes half.. producers, writers, distributors take another 40% literally cents on a dollar especially if they had no creative control. so even if an artist goes diamond.. and lets say they get 25 cents per record... Toni would have made 2.5 million on one record alone.. and half that on the other hit record. Artists make their money solely off tours and merchandise... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aed05 Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 do you know how much an artist gets from a record sale? The store takes half.. producers, writers, distributors take another 40% literally cents on a dollar especially if they had no creative control. so even if an artist goes diamond.. and lets say they get 25 cents per record... Toni would have made 2.5 million on one record alone.. and half that on the other hit record. Artists make their money solely off tours and merchandise... Smart artist make money off of publishing and songwriting as well as touring. But I already explained Toni and TLC's touring situations earlier in the thread. You're late. Plus Toni wasn't making 25 cents per album sold. She was making around 10 cents per album with royalty checks of only 2,000 dollars. Ch..Motown paid their artist better than Laface. She had a bad deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aed05 Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Plus, Toni sued Laface for back royalties and was awarded 20 million. So clearly the courts felt she had a bad deal too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janetDAYZ Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 IMO Because they were black artists and it was still during the time where black artists couldn't do "mega tours" unless you're Michael or Janet. That's still the case to this day actually (in some ways) Promoters usually don't have faith in black artists to do major tours so they're forced to do theatre tours... there is money in a theatre tour don't get me wrong, but not a significant amount especially if you're an artist like Toni that owes major money to the label because of a bad deal. TOF ..thats bullshit. Promoters dont have "less faith in blacks"..its about your audience and demographic. All they care about is DOES THIS ARTIST have enough clout to fill arena seats. They are in this to make money...an artist can be purple or green for all they care. If you're big..you're big!! Toni and TLC (I'm more than sure) would have been backed and supported by promoters for them to go on big tours. Back in those days...you dont sell more than 10 mill w/ an album and not able to get any support from promoters...if anything they are knocking down your door because all they see is dollar signs. Btmline ..you sell that many records.. YOU CAN TOUR! They just chose not to stupidly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaLpHieReBeL516 Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 He knew how to handle his money whereas Toni doesn't no, he had his mom, she was a parent first and she wasnt going to let anyone manhandle her son Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downeaznboi Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 the sisters are getting a talk show Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexus97 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 the sisters are getting a talk show they r shopping it. did it get picked up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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