So tell me ...WHAT IMPACT HAVE THEY MADE..??

[Mr. Wonder]

You just punched yourself out the game.

The Supremes were far more successful and popular than the spice girls. And their 8 #1 hits proves that. they were the only act in the sixties who's success rivaled the beatles. Not even the rolling stones were coming for miss ross and crew. As someone said earlier, if Motown kept proper documentation, I'm sure their record sells would easily place them as the most successful girl group of all time. And they lasted 10 years unlike the spice girls who sputtered out in 2.

Girl get REAL! I'm not even gonna go into the whole sales thing because for the reasons that you stated. But if you we're speaking on stats is quite clear who is the victor. No female group has ever had a song reach #1 in a record setting 20+ countries, let alone come close to that. Not only did the Spice Girls become the first British female group to clock a #1 in the US (check me), they're also the only group, and possibly artist, to ever place 6 consecutive #1s on the UK chart. That doesn't include the over all 10 consecutive top 2 hits. Furthermore, The Spice Girls arguably ushered in the bubblegum pop trend of the late 90s. The Supremes were only together and producing hits from about '64 to 70, the same amount of time as the Spice Girls. So let's not.

[aed05]

:lol:

I actually like Austin most of the time. he actually will make some great points that have often made me stop and think. But when he goes into stan mode he has such tunnel vision that you can't even have a logical conversation with him. And he's only doing all this to avoid giving TLC any credit, because of his loyalty to DC. Which, if we're being honest, is all about his obsession with Beyonce.

Its tired.

[Mr. Wonder]

And he's only doing all this to avoid giving TLC any credit, because of his loyalty to DC. Which, if we're being honest, is all about his obsession with Beyonce.

Incorrect. I've been a fan of DC since "No No No (Part I)" came out in '97. I have all of their albums except Survivor. And I have Fanmail and CSC. I like TLC and DC equally. But DC is the better group imo.

[ThatOtherFan]

*double f**king post* <_<

[ThatOtherFan]

You just punched yourself out the game.

The Supremes were far more successful and popular than the spice girls. And their 8 #1 hits proves that. they were the only act in the sixties who's success rivaled the beatles. Not even the rolling stones were coming for miss ross and crew. As someone said earlier, if Motown kept proper documentation, I'm sure their record sells would easily place them as the most successful girl group of all time. And they lasted 10 years unlike the spice girls who sputtered out in 2.

!!!!!!!

Please educate him.

When he goes into stan mode for random and irrelevant flops...and then try to place them above the TRUE most successful female group of all time. :mellow:

I REFUSE!

Girl get REAL! I'm not even gonna go into the whole sales thing because for the reasons that you stated. But if you we're speaking on stats is quite clear who is the victor. No female group has ever had a song reach #1 in a record setting 20+ countries, let alone come close to that. Not only did the Spice Girls become the first British female group to clock a #1 in the US (check me), they're also the only group, and possibly artist, to ever place 6 consecutive #1s on the UK chart. That doesn't include the over all 10 consecutive top 2 hits. Furthermore,The Spice Girls arguably ushered in the bubblegum pop trend of the late 90s. The Supremes were only together and producing hits from about '64 to 70, the same amount of time as the Spice Girls. So let's not.

...and The Sumpremes are arguably the template for ALL girl group. They not only impacted the 60's but the music industry itself... THEY changed the girl (not just for a brief time period, but forever).

...and Diana Ross and The Supremes were together from 64-70. The group itself continued in different incarnations into the 1977, when Mary Wilson finally left the group. Also, The Spice Girls were only popular for like two years (in the states) before they fell off. lol

So really Austineisha..LET'S NOT!

Bothered?

[Mr. Wonder]

...and The Sumpremes are arguably the template for ALL girl group. They not only impacted the 60's but the music industry itself... THEY changed the girl (not just for a brief time period, but forever).

...and Diana Ross and The Supremes were together from 64-70. The group itself continued in different incarnations into the 1977, when Mary Wilson finally left the group. Also, The Spice Girls were only popular for like two years (in the states) before they fell off. lol

So really Austineisha..LET'S NOT!

Bothered?

The Spice Girls didn't take their template. They, like TLC, took the template of the Mary Jane Girls in terms of their image. The Supremes racked up 12 #1s in a span of about 5 or 6 years. But that's because artists of the 50s, 60s, and 70s could put out an album twice a year because they didn't have to write their material and because albums back then only had about 8 to 9 tracks on average. Similarly, in a short time frame, The Spice Legends sold upwards of 55 million records with three albums.

Even IF Motown/Barry Gordy didn't lie to their artists about their sales, do you REALLY think The Supremes would have had two albums sell upwards of 20 million, let alone ONE album sell 20 million? I doubt it. They were popular at the height of the Civil Rights Movement and still faced challenges as a Black act. They couldn't perform everywhere. And just a quick glance at their Wikipedia, the Supremes didn't play huge venues in the US or abroad. The Spice Legends sold out stadiums, most notably the 80,000 capacity Wembley Stadium.

[Mr. Wonder]

*double f**king post* <_<

You're doing this on purpose. Let's not.

[ThatOtherFan]

The Spice Girls didn't take their template. They, like TLC, took the template of the Mary Jane Girls in terms of their image. The Supremes racked up 12 #1s in a span of about 5 or 6 years. But that's because artists of the 50s, 60s, and 70s could put out an album twice a year because they didn't have to write their material and because albums back then only had about 8 to 9 tracks on average. Similarly, in a short time frame, The Spice Legends sold upwards of 55 million records with three albums.

Even IF Motown/Barry Gordy didn't lie to their artists about their sales, do you REALLY think The Supremes would have had two albums sell upwards of 20 million, let alone ONE album sell 20 million? I doubt it. They were popular at the height of the Civil Rights Movement and still faced challenges as a Black act. They couldn't perform everywhere. And just a quick glance at their Wikipedia, the Supremes didn't play huge venues in the US or abroad. The Spice Legends sold out stadiums, most notably the 80,000 capacity Wembley Stadium.

Who do you think was the template for the Mary Jane girls? Again, The Supremes are the template/blueprint for ALL girl groups.

And as I said previously...if you adjusted the The Supremes sales (if Motown actually kept proper documentation of what their artists sold) to what artists were selling in the 90's and early 2000's...they would STILL be DRAGGING The Spice Flops.

Obviously still bothered...

[ThatOtherFan]

You're doing this on purpose. Let's not.

No, I'm not. :rolleyes:

[ThatOtherFan]

You're doing this on purpose. Let's not.

No, I'm not. :rolleyes:

[Mr. Wonder]

Who do you think was the template for the Mary Jane girls? Again, The Supremes are the template/blueprint for ALL girl groups.

And as I said previously...if you adjusted the The Supremes (if Motown actually kept proper documentation of what their artists sold) to what artists were selling in the 90's and early 2000's...they would STILL be DRAGGING The Spice Flops.

Obviously still bothered...

Certainly not The Supremes. The MJGs were a new image that hadn't been seen before in female groups.

You can't adjust sales. Bitch we ain't talking inflation. Poor TOF. Black acts weren't selling internationally like the artists of the 80s, 90s, and 00s. And I remember hearing The Supreme's record sales were only around 60 million anyway.

Did The Supremes ever sell out a stadium?

[ThatOtherFan]

Certainly not The Supremes. The MJGs were a new image that hadn't been seen before in female groups.

You can't adjust sales. Bitch we ain't talking inflation. Poor TOF. Black acts weren't selling internationally like the artists of the 80s, 90s, and 00s. And I remember hearing The Supreme's record sales were only around 60 million anyway.

Did The Supremes ever sell out a stadium?

A girl group who borrowed a template that had already been established by The Supremes. You could argue they took it to the "next level" but the blueprint was already in place and followed (and is STILL being followed).

You can adjust almost anything...especially if the point is to compare and contrast what a popular act of yesterday would do in today's market.

I know what Black acts of those times were doing and what wasn't possible because of race relations....which again makes the fact the ONLY act that did better in the 60's than the Supremes is The Beatles...that in itself says something about the barriers they broke down and how popular they truly were.

Now you're trying to compare a group that not only broke barriers for females, but an entire race of people (and ultimately ended up as the template for ALL girl groups). A group that helped influence the development of popular music as we know it today, to an act that had a peak of only two years at the most...oh, and they helped usher in the bubblegum music craze of the late 90's/ early 00s?

Again, I must ask....REALLY AUSTINEISHA? REALLY?

Still moved?

[Mr. Wonder]

A girl group who borrowed a template that had already been established by The Supremes. You could argue they took it to the "next level" but the blueprint was already in place and followed (and is STILL being followed).

You can adjust almost anything...especially if the point is to compare and contrast what a popular act of yesterday would do in today's market.

I know what Black acts of those times were doing and what wasn't possible because of race relations....which again makes the fact the ONLY act that did better in the 60's than the Supremes is The Beatles...that in itself says something about the barriers they broke down and how popular they truly were.

Now you're trying to compare a group that not only broke barriers for females, but an entire race of people (and ultimately ended up as the template for ALL girl groups). A group that helped influence the development of popular music as we know it today, to an act that had a peak of only two years at the most...oh, and they helped usher in the bubblegum music craze of the late 90's/ early 00s?

Again, I must ask....REALLY AUSTINEISHA? REALLY?

Still moved?

Please do not try to say they broke barriers for a whole race. It's a total insult to ppl like MLK and Malcolm X who devoted their lives to fighting for equality. The Supremes broke barriers for Black women in the music industry would be the better wording.

And no, you can not adjust the time frames. The charts speak for themselves. At their peaks, The Supremes didn't come close to having a song as massive as "Wannabe" and that is an undeniable fact. You can't adjust charts because if it was a mediocre hit then, it would've been a mediocre hit now. And for the Black acts that weren't on Motown, their record sales weren't that massive either. Black acts didn't really become worldwide phenoms until the disco era hit.

Looking back, The Supremes were never as popular worldwide as The Spice Girls were. For two years they had the world singing "Wannabe" and became one of the top songs of the decade in the US, and many other countries. The Supremes haven't come close to a movement as big as "Girl Power" with the accompanying "Peace" sign. The Spice Legends were a hit around the globe. They had like 3 massive worldwide hits. The Supremes could never see The Spice Legends' popularity.

[ThatOtherFan]

Please do not try to say they broke barriers for a whole race. It's a total insult to ppl like MLK and Malcolm X who devoted their lives to fighting for equality. The Supremes broke barriers for Black women in the music industry would be the better wording.

And no, you can not adjust the time frames. The charts speak for themselves. At their peaks, The Supremes didn't come close to having a song as massive as "Wannabe" and that is an undeniable fact. You can't adjust charts because if it was a mediocre hit then, it would've been a mediocre hit now. And for the Black acts that weren't on Motown, their record sales weren't that massive either. Black acts didn't really become worldwide phenoms until the disco era hit.

Looking back, The Supremes were never as popular worldwide as The Spice Girls were. For two years they had the world singing "Wannabe" and became one of the top songs of the decade in the US, and many other countries. The Supremes haven't come close to a movement as big as "Girl Power" with the accompanying "Peace" sign. The Spice Legends were a hit around the globe. They had like 3 massive worldwide hits. The Supremes could never see The Spice Legends' popularity.

I didn't say they ALONE broke barriers for a whole race, but yes they broke barriers for a race of people. That time and what they did represented SO MUCH more than just "a big pop act" or even a "a big female pop act". Their music, their images, their success did ALOT for the civil rights movement. Along with the whole Motown label and what it ultimately symbolized to not only the US but the world.

They, and other popular acts, opened the doors The Jacksons walked through, who in turn opened the doors even FURTHER for those that have come after them. Again, I'm not saying they ALONE broke barriers, but there is no denying they were factor in it (a major factor).

Take all of that into consideration and the fact that they ended being the SECOND biggest act of the 60's.... A time when artists were actually influencing and contributing to the development of music (and the industry) as we now know it. It just makes your comparisons silly...and that's being kind.

Still influencing the game today....I see why you're mad.

[Mr. Wonder]

It's quite clear you're on a tangent, riding a wavelength that nobody is on. We're talking POPULARITY. The Spice Girls' popularity supercedes The Supremes at their peaks. Even if sales and hits were to be adjusted, the Supremes Would still be trailing by the Spice Legends in the popularity department. Trying to adjust anything to give equal leverage has the strength of a 14 year old with muscular dystrophy. It's stupid.

We're speaking on FACTS. The Supremes NEVER had a song reach #1 in 20 countries. They Supremes NEVER had an album sell 20 million, let alone have TWO back-to-back 20 million sellers. If you look at WW certifications of Black acts of the 50s and 60s, they were hovering around the 500k mark. I know Stevie Wonder's albums up until about Talking Book collectively did about 5 million WW, and that figure is based on estimations and certifications.

The Spice Goddesses ascended to a level of popularity that led them to star in their own feature film, and became one of the top grossing films in the year of its release. That doesn't include their multi-million dollar merchandise empire - dolls, t-shirts, etc - that they built due to their level of popularity. That does include their product endorsements and other campaigns they got paid to do.

Like I said, it's stupid to compare the sales because the figures of the 60s are skewed and unreported. So if we based their popularity off charts, the Spice Girls clobber them there. If were to go off tours, the Spice Girls own them there as well. When the Spice Girls did a reunion tour in 2007, 3 million ppl signed up to purchase tickets and they played arenas and stadiums around the world. When The Supremes had a reunion tour, they couldn't sell out the lobby at Burger King.

To top it all off, the Spice Goddesses are the UK's most successful female group of all time, and one of the world's most successful groups. The best selling group behind Destiny's Child per the World Music Awards. Spice Girls were a global phenom at their peaks. Their impact on children was to the point where if you weren't a Spice Girls fans, then you couldn't sit at certain lunch tables, be friends with certain ppl, or even talk to certain ppl. Their girl power movement probably gave DC their template. They are one of the first pop act groups to empower young girls.

Come see about me.

[TwistedElegance™]

It's quite clear you're on a tangent, riding a wavelength that nobody is on. We're talking POPULARITY. The Spice Girls' popularity supercedes The Supremes at their peaks. Even if sales and hits were to be adjusted, the Supremes Would still be trailing by the Spice Legends in the popularity department. Trying to adjust anything to give equal leverage has the strength of a 14 year old with muscular dystrophy. It's stupid.

We're speaking on FACTS. The Supremes NEVER had a song reach #1 in 20 countries. They Supremes NEVER had an album sell 20 million, let alone have TWO back-to-back 20 million sellers. If you look at WW certifications of Black acts of the 50s and 60s, they were hovering around the 500k mark. I know Stevie Wonder's albums up until about Talking Book collectively did about 5 million WW, and that figure is based on estimations and certifications.

The Spice Goddesses ascended to a level of popularity that led them to star in their own feature film, and became one of the top grossing films in the year of its release. That doesn't include their multi-million dollar merchandise empire - dolls, t-shirts, etc - that they built due to their level of popularity. That does include their product endorsements and other campaigns they got paid to do.

Like I said, it's stupid to compare the sales because the figures of the 60s are skewed and unreported. So if we based their popularity off charts, the Spice Girls clobber them there. If were to go off tours, the Spice Girls own them there as well. When the Spice Girls did a reunion tour in 2007, 3 million ppl signed up to purchase tickets and they played arenas and stadiums around the world. When The Supremes had a reunion tour, they couldn't sell out the lobby at Burger King.

To top it all off, the Spice Goddesses are the UK's most successful female group of all time, and one of the world's most successful groups. The best selling group behind Destiny's Child per the World Music Awards. Spice Girls were a global phenom at their peaks. Their impact on children was to the point where if you weren't a Spice Girls fans, then you couldn't sit at certain lunch tables, be friends with certain ppl, or even talk to certain ppl. Their girl power movement probably gave DC their template. They are one of the first pop act groups to empower young girls.

Come see about me.

[Mr. Wonder]

[ThatOtherFan]

It's quite clear you're on a tangent, riding a wavelength that nobody is on. We're talking POPULARITY. The Spice Girls' popularity supercedes The Supremes at their peaks. Even if sales and hits were to be adjusted, the Supremes Would still be trailing by the Spice Legends in the popularity department. Trying to adjust anything to give equal leverage has the strength of a 14 year old with muscular dystrophy. It's stupid.

We're speaking on FACTS. The Supremes NEVER had a song reach #1 in 20 countries. They Supremes NEVER had an album sell 20 million, let alone have TWO back-to-back 20 million sellers. If you look at WW certifications of Black acts of the 50s and 60s, they were hovering around the 500k mark. I know Stevie Wonder's albums up until about Talking Book collectively did about 5 million WW, and that figure is based on estimations and certifications.

The Spice Goddesses ascended to a level of popularity that led them to star in their own feature film, and became one of the top grossing films in the year of its release. That doesn't include their multi-million dollar merchandise empire - dolls, t-shirts, etc - that they built due to their level of popularity. That does include their product endorsements and other campaigns they got paid to do.

Like I said, it's stupid to compare the sales because the figures of the 60s are skewed and unreported. So if we based their popularity off charts, the Spice Girls clobber them there. If were to go off tours, the Spice Girls own them there as well. When the Spice Girls did a reunion tour in 2007, 3 million ppl signed up to purchase tickets and they played arenas and stadiums around the world. When The Supremes had a reunion tour, they couldn't sell out the lobby at Burger King.

Come see about me.

It's very obvious to anyone viewing this thread now or in the future who is on a tangent... and it ain't me. :lol:

I'm talking about POPULARITY, IMPACT, SOCIAL CHANGE, BREAK RACIAL BARRIERS, THE BEGINNINGS OF FEMALE EMPOWERMENT (at a time when female empowerment was TRULY needed)....

You keep spouting off numbers that apply to a time after The Supremes not only dominated, but set the THE BLUEPRINT for girl groups, and helped define and set the standards within the industry itself.

Nothing you say or figure you spout off can top that...you look silly right now Austineisha. Truly silly... And I say that to you not as "TOF" but as a friend (or "random internet forum acquaintances" as I like to call it, lol).

Even if we were to go by figures "as they are" The Supremes dominate as you stated earlier you've read the The Supremes have sold 60 millions records (I have seen upwards of 80 million, but thanks to Motown we'll never truly know). Now compared that to The Spice Girls 55 Million...now adjust The Supremes numbers to what artists were selling in the late 90's and early 00's....they would literally crush The Spice Girls.

Still got the game on lock...I understand your apparent anger tho

[ThatOtherFan]

It's quite clear you're on a tangent, riding a wavelength that nobody is on. We're talking POPULARITY. The Spice Girls' popularity supercedes The Supremes at their peaks. Even if sales and hits were to be adjusted, the Supremes Would still be trailing by the Spice Legends in the popularity department. Trying to adjust anything to give equal leverage has the strength of a 14 year old with muscular dystrophy. It's stupid.

We're speaking on FACTS. The Supremes NEVER had a song reach #1 in 20 countries. They Supremes NEVER had an album sell 20 million, let alone have TWO back-to-back 20 million sellers. If you look at WW certifications of Black acts of the 50s and 60s, they were hovering around the 500k mark. I know Stevie Wonder's albums up until about Talking Book collectively did about 5 million WW, and that figure is based on estimations and certifications.

The Spice Goddesses ascended to a level of popularity that led them to star in their own feature film, and became one of the top grossing films in the year of its release. That doesn't include their multi-million dollar merchandise empire - dolls, t-shirts, etc - that they built due to their level of popularity. That does include their product endorsements and other campaigns they got paid to do.

Like I said, it's stupid to compare the sales because the figures of the 60s are skewed and unreported. So if we based their popularity off charts, the Spice Girls clobber them there. If were to go off tours, the Spice Girls own them there as well. When the Spice Girls did a reunion tour in 2007, 3 million ppl signed up to purchase tickets and they played arenas and stadiums around the world. When The Supremes had a reunion tour, they couldn't sell out the lobby at Burger King.

Come see about me.

It's very obvious to anyone viewing this thread now or in the future who is on a tangent... and it ain't me. :lol:

I'm talking about POPULARITY, IMPACT, SOCIAL CHANGE, BREAK RACIAL BARRIERS, THE BEGINNINGS OF FEMALE EMPOWERMENT (at a time when female empowerment was TRULY needed)....

You keep spouting off numbers that apply to a time after The Supremes not only dominated, but set the THE BLUEPRINT for girl groups, and helped define and set the standards within the industry itself.

Nothing you say or figure you spout off can top that...you look silly right now Austineisha. Truly silly... And I say that to you not as "TOF" but as a friend (or "random internet forum acquaintances" as I like to call it, lol).

Even if we were to go by figures "as they are" The Supremes dominate as you stated earlier you've read the The Supremes have sold 60 millions records (I have seen upwards of 80 million, but thanks to Motown we'll never truly know). Now compared that to The Spice Girls 55 Million...now adjust The Supremes numbers to what artists were selling in the late 90's and early 00's....they would literally crush The Spice Girls.

Still got the game on lock...I understand your apparent anger tho

*another double post* But I'm letting it stay up...it NEEDS to be repeated. :excited: :excited:

[CalQuin]

These essays

[ThatOtherFan]

These essays

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

I wish I had used that gif.

[Mr. Wonder]

I love The Supremes. But their popularity isn't seeing the Spice Legends.

This is the line that was questioned. So discussing impact and influence and all that other stuff is downright irrelevant.

You can talk about that all you want but it doesn't change the FACTS, which is what I'm here for.

"Wannabe" was #1 in more countries than ANY Supremes single. FACT.

The Spice Goddess STARRED in THEIR OWN feature film because of their popularity. FACT.

The Spice Goddess have outsold The Supremes based on known figures. FACT.

The Spice Goddess have out grossed The Supremes in tours. FACT.

The Spice Goddess were WORLDWIDE icons. FACT.

The Spice Goddesses were spokespersons for different companies because of their popularity. FACT.

Yes The Supremes are legendary and shaped the industry, but that's the argument. The argument is popularity. And when you look at the stats, the Spice Goddesses are the most popular female group of all time. Get over it.

[ThatOtherFan]

This is the line that was questioned. So discussing impact and influence and all that other stuff is downright irrelevant.

You can talk about that all you want but it doesn't change the FACTS.

"Wannabe" was #1 in more countries than ANY Supremes single. FACT.

The Spice Goddess STARRED in THEIR OWN feature film because of their popularity. FACT.

The Spice Goddess have outsold The Supremes based on known figures. FACT.

The Spice Goddess have out grossed The Supremes in tours. FACT.

The Spice Goddess were WORLDWIDE icons. FACT.

The Spice Goddesses were spokespersons for different companies because of their popularity. FACT.

Yes The Supremes are legendary and shaped the industry, but that's the argument. The argument is popularity. And when you look at the stats, the Spice Goddesses are the most popular female group of all time. Get over it.

The discussion is based off of...

So tell me ...WHAT IMPACT HAVE THEY MADE..??

I included The Supremes as the TRUE biggest female group of all time...and the most influential. You, continuing to stan obliviously, tried to downplay The Supremes in every way possibly to build up a bubble gum pop act that was truly only successful for two years.

When I begin breaking down their success, popularity, cultural impact, and influence on music and the industry itself you continued to rely on figures... However, when you truly examine the ENTIRE thing, it's very clear The Supremes were and REMAIN the biggest female group EVER...and the most influential.

Even using the figures as they are (which you provided) The Supremes STILL drag The Spice Girls...and if we adjusted The Supreme sales to that of artists of the late 90's and early 00's they would NOT ONLY continue to dominate, but CRUSH The Spice Girls.

All of this has left you VERY bothered, but as I said before...I understand your apparent anger.

[ThatOtherFan]

*another double post..but I'll spare Austineisha having his wig snatched twice*

[Mr. Wonder]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wannabe_(song)#Chart_positions