Mr. Wonder Posted November 28, 2010 Share Posted November 28, 2010 This thread is going to be a VERY good read I can see. And I already know TOF is in here doing too much. There was a "Caution" sign outside of the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Wonder Posted November 28, 2010 Share Posted November 28, 2010 I read the whole thread. Thank GOD TOF didn't do the most like he always does. The problem with this thread is that everyone has their own definition as to what a "musical genius" is. Everyone is pushing their agenda(/opinion), and it's like trying to push a car through a bedroom door. There is no black and white definition of what a "musical genius" is. With that said, imo, we'd have to start with the history. Michael, Janet, Madonna, and Whitney are all seen as the innovators of/for today's generation of acts. Everything they did was considered groundbreaking because it had never been done before. Michael's talents are definitely hyped due to his level of fame. It is why many ppl think he invented "The Moonwalk", for example. Everything he did was considered groundbreaking. If we are talking musical genius, it's not always about being innovative but creative as well. For example, Stevie Wonder is a well known musical genius. His use of synthesizers on songs like "Higher Ground" pretty much gave birth to pop music as we know it today (Donna Summer even has someone to thank). I could go on about Stevie but that's another thread. Michael hardly ever ventured out with his sound. There isn't much about his music that would render him genius. There was never any new elements incorporated in his sounds. For example, Donna's "I Feel Love" is innovative for incorporating synths, and pretty much setting the template for techno and electronic music. That was genius of her and Giorgio. Prince is genius for creating the Minneapolis Sound. The Beatles are genius for whatever they did. Michael's music was never groundbreaking (like it was something never heard before), but was considered that due to his level of fame. Dangerous is nothing but RN1814 Part II, he jumped on the New Jack Swing bandwagon, hardly genius. HIStory is nothing but him bitching about the media dragging him for filth and being used by ppl. And Invincible is nothing more than a less artistic version of Dangerous. He did not grow with each album. He did not incorporate anything new musically that hadn't already been done. He didn't redefine the use of instruments like Jimi Hendrix did with the guitar and using diffusion or whatever it's called. He's a genius for his performing and what not, but for his music, it's a hit and miss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Wonder Posted November 28, 2010 Share Posted November 28, 2010 Not to mention the singing and dancing, he beatboxes, he makes the sounds of an orchestra of instruments with his mouth (if you've ever watched the Dangerous Deposition you'll know what I mean) - a great deal of the 'instruments' in his tracks are made by his mouth, but on top of that he can also play instruments. He wrote Billie Jean in a single car journey. He alone wrote a music video which opened up MTV to black artists. Basically it would be quicker to talk about what he wasn't good at... lol Black artists were already on MTV prior to Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eli's_rhythm Posted November 28, 2010 Share Posted November 28, 2010 I came into this thread thinking that he wasn't, but I've changed my mind. In my opinion, anybody who can write as many memorable, timeless, catchy, elegant, pleasing melodies and hooks as he did is a genius. He is a pop music genius. His shit songs would be amazing for other people. I'm not a stan--my love for him isn't in the same galaxy as my love for Janet--but I always enjoy hearing him in my headphones. I like all of his albums. His singles are mind-numbing in their sheer excellence. There have been very few people to be as consistent as he was, ever. He didn't grow very much, but that's not necessary for genius. The greatest of the greats usually fell off after their peaks too... nobody can get better forever. (See Prince.) His genius is in itself his pop sensibility. That extends to his vocals too. The way he wrapped his voice around a song was beautiful. Edit for adds. I was going to add something before I read up and noticed that Austin basically hit it. What I'M saying is that there is no measure of genius. That was the point in writing that growth isn't necessary for musical genius. In music, you can be a genius in many ways. You don't have to be all-encompassing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henrietta. Posted November 28, 2010 Share Posted November 28, 2010 timeless I stopped there...majority of his stuff is VERY dated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escapade Posted November 28, 2010 Share Posted November 28, 2010 It seems like some of you including the person who made this thread already have your minds set so what is the point of this thread? You are just attacking peoples opinions. If MJ isn't a genius I don't know any other musician that is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted November 28, 2010 Share Posted November 28, 2010 Janet is more of a musical genius than MJ. She hasn't got stuck in one sound, the melodies and vocal arrangements she writes are above anyone else, the performance style she created has been copied by practically everyone else out today including the men. Her dance is far more versatile, her songs are more versatile and she created whole new sounds and genres. Who ever heard a song like Doesn't really matter before it came out, and there are dozens of others that were so unique they can't be categorised. All hail queen Janet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtraordinary Xternal Posted November 28, 2010 Share Posted November 28, 2010 Janet is more of a musical genius than MJ. She hasn't got stuck in one sound, the melodies and vocal arrangements she writes are above anyone else, the performance style she created has been copied by practically everyone else out today including the men. Her dance is far more versatile, her songs are more versatile and she created whole new sounds and genres. Who ever heard a song like Doesn't really matter before it came out, and there are dozens of others that were so unique they can't be categorised. All hail queen Janet! JAnet is great but when compared to her brother she will always come up short and even she knows that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selz Posted November 28, 2010 Share Posted November 28, 2010 Black artists were already on MTV prior to Mike. Who? (I'm not challenging you, I just don't actually know ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eli's_rhythm Posted November 28, 2010 Share Posted November 28, 2010 I stopped there...majority of his stuff is VERY dated By virtue of being from the '80s, his stuff doesn't sound like it could be released today, production-wise. But I'm talking about melodies and hooks and universal appeal. And I'm also talking about how his production sounds WAY better than that of other '80s pop stars. The arrangement, though, is what is timeless. Don't look at the music in such a shallow way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escapade Posted November 28, 2010 Share Posted November 28, 2010 To the MTV reference, I don't think Michael was the first black to play on MTV I just think he was the first black to get heavy rotation... That's what I think cause after all I was born in the 90's lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escapade Posted November 28, 2010 Share Posted November 28, 2010 I stopped there...majority of his stuff is VERY dated A lot of classics are dated I agree because I think the song Thriller is dated, Human Nature is not that dated though, along with his HIStory album and from there on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Wonder Posted November 28, 2010 Share Posted November 28, 2010 It seems like some of you including the person who made this thread already have your minds set so what is the point of this thread? You are just attacking peoples opinions. If MJ isn't a genius I don't know any other musician that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Wonder Posted November 28, 2010 Share Posted November 28, 2010 Who? (I'm not challenging you, I just don't actually know ) I actually learned this from Duran Duran on MJJC a long time ago. Donna Summer and Tina Turner were two Black acts who were on there in the early 80s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Wonder Posted November 28, 2010 Share Posted November 28, 2010 Janet is more of a musical genius than MJ. She hasn't got stuck in one sound, the melodies and vocal arrangements she writes are above anyone else, the performance style she created has been copied by practically everyone else out today including the men. Her dance is far more versatile, her songs are more versatile and she created whole new sounds and genres. Who ever heard a song like Doesn't really matter before it came out, and there are dozens of others that were so unique they can't be categorised. All hail queen Janet! This is all very much so true, but I wouldn't go as far as calling Janet the genius. She too needed help from Jimmy and Terry. And it's clear from DJ - Discipline that J&T are needed. Like I said, the problem is that Mike's level of fame makes his talents hyped. If Janet were was popular as Mike was Thriller - Dangerous ppl wouldn't be saying some of the things they say about her now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escapade Posted November 28, 2010 Share Posted November 28, 2010 I would also count Stevie as a musical genius. I guess it all depends on what people's definition of a musical genius is. We all have different definitions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzebabe Posted November 28, 2010 Author Share Posted November 28, 2010 It seems like some of you including the person who made this thread already have your minds set so what is the point of this thread? You are just attacking peoples opinions. If MJ isn't a genius I don't know any other musician that is. you obviously can't read and comprehend...I made the thread...I have stated in many different posts that all opinions are welcomed...i've stated that I don't think he is, but that doesn't mean I don't want to hear the opinions of those who do...don't bring this bullshit into my thread...everyone has their minds made up, you included...you feel like he is, good for you, that's your opinion...if you don't like an opposing opinion then don't come in a thread where there are different opinions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Wonder Posted November 28, 2010 Share Posted November 28, 2010 I would also count Stevie as a musical genius. I guess it all depends on what people's definition of a musical genius is. We all have different definitions. And that is why there will never be a real answer to this thread. The opinions of what a musical genius will differ. It kinda reminds me of a thread we had asking if Whitney is an icon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzebabe Posted November 28, 2010 Author Share Posted November 28, 2010 JAnet is great but when compared to her brother she will always come up short and even she knows that. everyone will (technically) come up short....that's what happens when you have "Thriller" fame Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escapade Posted November 28, 2010 Share Posted November 28, 2010 you obviously can't read and comprehend...I made the thread...I have stated in many different posts that all opinions are welcomed...i've stated that I don't think he is, but that doesn't mean I don't want to hear the opinions of those who do...don't bring this bullshit into my thread...everyone has their minds made up, you included...you feel like he is, good for you, that's your opinion...if you don't like an opposing opinion then don't come in a thread where there are different opinions Well.... In my opinion, I think Michael Jackson is a musical genius, along with Stevie and Prince. Those are the people who changed the music scene and they were the first to do it. The industry today is mostly made up of carbon copies of those who set the blueprint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzebabe Posted November 28, 2010 Author Share Posted November 28, 2010 And that is why there will never be a real answer to this thread. The opinions of what a musical genius will differ. It kinda reminds me of a thread we had asking if Whitney is an icon. well I never expected to get a definite answer...it was really just a way to find out why you may or may not beleive he is...I think there are artists who most see as clear cut musical geniuses, then there are artists that are more up in the air Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzebabe Posted November 28, 2010 Author Share Posted November 28, 2010 Well.... In my opinion, I think Michael Jackson is a musical genius, along with Stevie and Prince. Those are the people who changed the music scene and they were the first to do it. The industry today is mostly made up of carbon copies of those who set the blueprint. you've stated your opinion already, which is what I asked for everyone in the thread to do, whether or not they share the same views...clearly, this is not a thread where everyone will share the same opinion...my only request was to keep my thread drama free, state your opinion, and respect the opinion of others even if it is in disagreement with yours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Wonder Posted November 28, 2010 Share Posted November 28, 2010 well I never expected to get a definite answer...it was really just a way to find out why you may or may not beleive he is...I think there are artists who most see as clear cut musical geniuses, then there are artists that are more up in the air Yeah there can't be a definite answer because definitions vary. I personally don't believe he's the musical genius that ppl make him out to be, but he has done some incredible things with his music. Getting stuck in a box after Bad is not genius. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janetDAYZ Posted November 28, 2010 Share Posted November 28, 2010 Im honestly, pleasantly surprised this thread didn't get out of hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
art Posted November 28, 2010 Share Posted November 28, 2010 It seems like some of you including the person who made this thread already have your minds set so what is the point of this thread? You are just attacking peoples opinions. If MJ isn't a genius I don't know any other musician that is. Innovative musically, didn't need visuals, plays 10+ instruments, writes, produces, composes, wrote classics for other artists, influenced your faves music, etc. etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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